Tornado 6-230 Distributor Issues

jjp2697

jjp2697

Gear Grinder
Aug 15, 2023
13
Illinois
First Name
John
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1964
Hello all!
I have been having a heck of a time trying to get my Grandpa's 230 Tornado started. Everything seems to be in decent shape for farm truck that sat 15 years.

We've gotten it to pop and backfire a few times, but we cannot figure this darn Distributor out. I got the firing order of course, but can anyone give me where position 1 is supposed to point? The manual says nothing about this and doesn't even show a diagram.
We've found TDC in cylinder 1 with a screwdriver and tried that, with some backfiring - we also tried 180 from that with no avail!

I'm also working through a weak spark/weak crank issue too, so maybe that is my only issue.
Frustrated but also having fun working on my Grandpa's Willys :)

Any help will be appreciated!!
-John
 
jjp2697 said:
Hello all!
I have been having a heck of a time trying to get my Grandpa's 230 Tornado started. Everything seems to be in decent shape for farm truck that sat 15 years.

We've gotten it to pop and backfire a few times, but we cannot figure this darn Distributor out. I got the firing order of course, but can anyone give me where position 1 is supposed to point? The manual says nothing about this and doesn't even show a diagram.
We've found TDC in cylinder 1 with a screwdriver and tried that, with some backfiring - we also tried 180 from that with no avail!

I'm also working through a weak spark/weak crank issue too, so maybe that is my only issue.
Frustrated but also having fun working on my Grandpa's Willys :)

Any help will be appreciated!!
-John
Click to expand...
Check out the diagram here. https://forums.ifsja.org/forum/tire.../127566-230-1-cylinder-connection-on-dist-cap
 
Remove the cap.

Turn the engine over by hand and see if the rotor is moving or does it start and stop.

Thomas' has a bad Oil Pump Drive gear.

The bronze drive gear drives the oil pump, oil pump drives the Distributor, it should not jump/skip/hop/stop moving while turning over.

Do a compression and leakdown test if able.
 
timd32 said:
Remove the cap.

Turn the engine over by hand and see if the rotor is moving or does it start and stop.

Thomas' has a bad Oil Pump Drive gear.

The bronze drive gear drives the oil pump, oil pump drives the Distributor, it should not jump/skip/hop/stop moving while turning over.

Do a compression and leakdown test if able.
Click to expand...
I found Thomas' forum and saw your discussion. My rotor moves nice and smooth. I think I just need to replace the wires and see if a better battery will correct my weak crank.

Thanks!
 
I have a running and driving Tornado. Below are pictures from a 1967 Motors Manual, the end of a Tornado distributor shaft, and the shaft and gear on the oil pump.

The picture shows the location of the spark plug wire for #1 cylinder. If you will notice that the tip of the distributor is not symmetrical, and it matches the offset slot in the oil pump shaft. I would think that something would be damaged if the distributor is rotated 180 degrees and reinstalled if it's even possible.

Now if the oil pump was removed and installed without the distributor positioned property these locations will be off.

I was in your place 18 months ago.
 

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Caseywillys said:
I have a running and driving Tornado. Below are pictures from a 1967 Motors Manual and a picture of the end of a Tornado distributor shaft.
Click to expand...
Good point, the original damper on the front of the engine has marks for the Oil Pump installation and then timing marks.

It goes over in the manual where the slot should be on the oil pump before and after the pump is installed, then you match up the slot on the Distributor

It's all written pretty well in the 230 engine manual.
 
Caseywillys said:
I respectfully wish to point out and correct me if I am wrong, but the location of #1 is shown in three different locations in the above links and picture. My #1 is per the picture I posted.
Click to expand...
I have noticed that #1 is shown in different places. I think we can agree that it has to be within 12:00-5:00.
I’ve seen 1:00, 5:00 and now I’ve seen your 12:00.
Very confusing.

The history of my grandpa’s Willys is pretty unmolested. He was very crafty but he would never go as far as pulling a distributor out.
They said one day they went to start it and it wouldn’t go - so there it sat
 
jjp2697 said:
I have noticed that #1 is shown in different places. I think we can agree that it has to be within 12:00-5:00.
I’ve seen 1:00, 5:00 and now I’ve seen your 12:00.
Very confusing.

The history of my grandpa’s Willys is pretty unmolested. He was very crafty but he would never go as far as pulling a distributor out.
They said one day they went to start it and it wouldn’t go - so there it sat
Click to expand...
Easier to do this with a friend - Take plug out of #1 cyl. Take off your rotor cap. Get an endoscope into the hole. Put a wrench on the engine and turn. When you see the first piston at top dead center mark where the rotor is positioned and confirm the points are closed. That should confirm the correct position.
 
Thomas Vilardi said:
Easier to do this with a friend - Take plug out of #1 cyl. Take off your rotor cap. Get an endoscope into the hole. Put a wrench on the engine and turn. When you see the first piston at top dead center mark where the rotor is positioned and confirm the points are closed. That should confirm the correct position.
Click to expand...
We haven’t used an endoscope, but we’ve done that already and mine points to 5:00. That’s also what the tune up sheet shows. I have to replace the points and condenser and we should be good to go!
 
jjp2697 said:
I found Thomas' forum and saw your discussion. My rotor moves nice and smooth. I think I just need to replace the wires and see if a better battery will correct my weak crank.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

John. You shouldn't even attempt to start the motor unless you have done the following:

Get the factory workshop manual for the 230
Change the oil and filter
Cleaned the gas tank and added a fuel filter.
Rebuilt the carb. Holleys do not like to sit. Not even for a month
Replaced the spark plugs and wires.
New battery.
New points and condenser.

No need to use any exotic methods to find TDC. Pull the valve cover and rotate the motor by hand until the #1 cam lobe is pointing straight down and the oil hole is at 12:00. That is TDC. The timing marks on the cover/crank pulley should be very close to 0. Assuming that this motor ran when parked and no one has removed the oil pump, the rotor will be pointed at the #1 tower on the dizzy cap. Turn the distributor body until the points are just starting to break. Make sure the wires are installed correctly. Firing order is on the valve cover and counter-clockwise IIRC. Put some gas in the carb through the vent hole with a little squirt bottle being careful not to spill any into the venturiis proper. Don't use starter fluid. Close the choke. The motor should start within a few cranks.
 
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cwdtmmrs said:
John. You shouldn't even attempt to start the motor unless you have done the following:

Get the factory workshop manual for the 230
Change the oil and filter
Cleaned the gas tank and added a fuel filter.
Rebuilt the carb. Holleys do not like to sit. Not even for a month
Replaced the spark plugs and wires.
New battery.
New points and condenser.

No need to use and exotic methods to find TDC. Pull the valve cover and rotate the motor by hand until the #1 cam lobe is pointing straight down and the oil hole is at 12:00. That is TDC. The timing marks on the cover/crank pulley should be very close to 0. Assuming that this motor ran when parked and no one has removed the oil pump, the rotor will be pointed at the #1 tower on the dizzy cap. Turn the distributor body until the points are just starting to break. Make sure the wires are installed correctly. Firing order is on the valve cover and counter-clockwise IIRC. Put some gas in the carb through the vent hole with a little squirt bottle being careful not to spill any into the venturiis proper. Don't use starter fluid. Close the choke. The motor should start within a few cranks.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. We’ve done everything except removing the valve cover. We made an auxiliary gas tank because the original is really bad.
What we don’t have is time I work 50+ hours a week
 
jjp2697 said:
Thanks for the advice. We’ve done everything except removing the valve cover. We made an auxiliary gas tank because the original is really bad.
What we don’t have is time I work 50+ hours a week
Click to expand...

Only 50? You must not be self-employed! :D
 
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