Ross steering gear box rebuild - bushings

Vintage Don said:
Hi folks - I'm moving into a new area to get in trouble! (1948 stock pickup 4 WD)

I got a rebuild kit some time ago from Walcks for the steering gearbox (I didn't know I was going to spend two months playing with the front axle....) . It included a new sector shaft, new shaft bushings, the ball bearings, etc, Yesterday, I got it mostly apart and today I finished and cleaned up parts and studied it a bit. No real problems, but some concerns. (more below)

View attachment 58309

I had to really work to talk myself into removing the old bushings. They looked fine, and the old sector shaft was nice and tight, no wobble or play. Plus, the old bushings had oil grooves in them and the replacements do not, they're just straight. But eventually I talked myself into it and knocked the old ones out. I cleaned it all up, and was ready to start installing the new bushings. And they just slid right in there! (still more below)

View attachment 58308

Now while it's nice that it was easy - it was TOO easy. In a trial fit, the new shaft is significantly hard to get into the bushings - lots of force to push it in - like you need a hammer. So I am having visions of the shaft tight in the bushing - and the bushing loose in the housing - and the bushing is spinning in the housing, instead of the shaft spinning in the bushing like it should. When I say it's loose, I mean I just slid it in with my thumb, not much resistance at all. It did seat, and I can't spin it with a finger once it's in there. But I know the shaft is TIGHT going into them...

Can any body talk me out of worrying about that? Is this one of those things like where the wheel bearings won't spin on the spindle, even though they just slide on there?

AND - we've got more shims to play with. The cap at the top of the box, where the steering shaft comes in through - it's shimmed. - gotta set a pre-load spec. Except I can't find any spec, can anybody help with that?

Last but not least - the end of the new sector shaft really doesn't want to go very far into the steering linkage arm. It's a fine spline, appears to be tapered. I can only get it in about 40% of the splined area. I know that nut has to be really, really tight, but I'm having a hard time imagining it's going to seat a lot further in....
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I had exact same experience when I rebuilt my Ross steering box. I went with the old bushings which showed very minimal wear. I have heard of this problem before here.
 
Bill Kuran said:
SNIP... The only play in the system is due to the springs at each end of the drag link. Once the pitman and steering arms are modified to accept spherical bearing that play will be gone.

After reading about what you did in order to get the pitman arm to fit on the sector shaft, I encourage to to read these two articles on Moses' site.
https://www.4wdmechanix.com/Ross-TL-Steering-Gear-Replacement-Parts?r=1

https://www.4wdmechanix.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Ross-TL-12-Pitman-Arm-Installation-Rev-A1.pdf Revison (B) increased assembly torque to 300 lb-ft.
SNIP...
Click to expand...

I often wondered if you were going to trust the oem steering to set your land-speed-records...

I've heard a lot of states don't allow modding steering to accept Heim or spherical bearings. I trust your thoughts more than the states on this... ;)

And ALL the control surfaces of my beloved Huey are controlled with spherical bearings and that's an incredible set of loads/forces.
 
Very interesting and helpful discussion. I also love those '33, '34 Chevies.
 
Lookout Ranch said:
The instructions are to:

1) screw it in until it bottoms out
2) back it out one full turn
3) tighten the lock nut

This worked fine on mine.
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Carter, my instructions say to hand tighten it "very snug" when the wheels are at full lock left or right and then back off 1 turn. Is that how you adjusted yours?
 

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cwdtmmrs said:
Carter, my instructions say to hand tighten it "very snug" when the wheels are at full lock left or right and then back off 1 turn. Is that how you adjusted yours?
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That sounds right. It’s been awhile, so I don’t remember exactly what I did, but it probably involved following the instructions. I do know my wheel turns freely throughout its full range without binding.
 
Lookout Ranch said:
That sounds right. It’s been awhile, so I don’t remember exactly what I did, but it probably involved following the instructions. I do know my wheel turns freely throughout its full range without binding.
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Ok. Thanks. I just think that if you adjust it tight at full left or right stop, it will be very tight and possibly bind in the middle.
 
It seems to me that it makes a whole lot more sense to adjust the tension at the midpoint of travel - where that centered position is "right" - since that's where you will do 95% of your driving, going in a reasonably straight ahead direction.

The design gives some increasing slack, when turned in either direction. But since you're pulling into the turn against the resistance, you don't feel that.
 
Vintage Don said:
It seems to me that it makes a whole lot more sense to adjust the tension at the midpoint of travel - where that centered position is "right" - since that's where you will do 95% of your driving, going in a reasonably straight ahead direction.
I agree, but that isn't what the instructions say. I think the idea is to hand tighten at full lock so there is enough spring travel to compress at midpoint.
The design gives some increasing slack, when turned in either direction. But since you're pulling into the turn against the resistance, you don't feel that
Correct. Once you get toward full lock there is only 1 pin engaged in the steering gear. I think the intended design of the tight steer is to keep it in as much contact as possible..
Click to expand...
 
cwdtmmrs said: "I agree, but that isn't what the instructions say. I think the idea is to hand tighten at full lock so there is enough spring travel to compress at midpoint."

Or - we could do it like it says in the 1948 Mechanics Manual -

Resized_20191015_143454.jpeg
 
Yes VD, but that is not comparing apples to apples. There is no spring in the factory adjustment screw.
 
Gotcha, valid point.

I just like messing with ya, now that you've taken back 75% of the mean stuff.... haha
 
My favorite version of Tim's running "back-handed compliment" wise crack gag he's got going with Don:

"I take back half of what I said about you... except for the stuff that was true!"

(Whoops! Edit 10/16 at 8:49 PM. Should be:))
"I take back almost everything I said about you... except for the stuff that was true!"
 
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Adjusting mine as the instructions said to do yielded poor results. I found it needed to be tighter than "hand tight at full lock, minus one turn". Otherwise, it created more slop than a properly adjusted stock screw.
 
Vintage Don said:
Hi folks - I'm moving into a new area to get in trouble! (1948 stock pickup 4 WD)

I got a rebuild kit some time ago from Walcks for the steering gearbox (I didn't know I was going to spend two months playing with the front axle....) . It included a new sector shaft, new shaft bushings, the ball bearings, etc, Yesterday, I got it mostly apart and today I finished and cleaned up parts and studied it a bit. No real problems, but some concerns. (more below)

View attachment 58309

I had to really work to talk myself into removing the old bushings. They looked fine, and the old sector shaft was nice and tight, no wobble or play. Plus, the old bushings had oil grooves in them and the replacements do not, they're just straight. But eventually I talked myself into it and knocked the old ones out. I cleaned it all up, and was ready to start installing the new bushings. And they just slid right in there! (still more below)

View attachment 58308

Now while it's nice that it was easy - it was TOO easy. In a trial fit, the new shaft is significantly hard to get into the bushings - lots of force to push it in - like you need a hammer. So I am having visions of the shaft tight in the bushing - and the bushing loose in the housing - and the bushing is spinning in the housing, instead of the shaft spinning in the bushing like it should. When I say it's loose, I mean I just slid it in with my thumb, not much resistance at all. It did seat, and I can't spin it with a finger once it's in there. But I know the shaft is TIGHT going into them...

Can any body talk me out of worrying about that? Is this one of those things like where the wheel bearings won't spin on the spindle, even though they just slide on there?

AND - we've got more shims to play with. The cap at the top of the box, where the steering shaft comes in through - it's shimmed. - gotta set a pre-load spec. Except I can't find any spec, can anybody help with that?

Last but not least - the end of the new sector shaft really doesn't want to go very far into the steering linkage arm. It's a fine spline, appears to be tapered. I can only get it in about 40% of the splined area. I know that nut has to be really, really tight, but I'm having a hard time imagining it's going to seat a lot further in....
Click to expand...
Hi....Did you ever sort out the lack of fit for the pitman arm and new sector shaft ? I’m in the same boat. Both new, lots of time and effort getting it all together and now dead in the water. So frustrating.
 
I did. Go back up to Page 1, Posting #13 (they're numbered at top right), where I explained and showed some photos. I Dremeled the grooves deeper, and carefully turned down the OD of the splined area until they would fit deeper. Pain in the butt, but eventually got there.
 
Vintage Don said:
I did. Go back up to Page 1, Posting #13 (they're numbered at top right), where I explained and showed some photos. I Dremeled the grooves deeper, and carefully turned down the OD of the splined area until they would fit deeper. Pain in the butt, but eventually got there.
Click to expand...
Aaaccckk.....I was afraid you were going to say that. I was already trying to think of a way to grind down the sector splines a hair. Kind of scary considering it’s your steering and all .....sh*t, .....for what they charge it’d be awesome if some of these “hard” parts worked/fit. The drag link kits suck too. Thanks for your help and your details on your issues. You’re not alone
 
Right. It seems like - if you decide to make a part like this - you have to make it to SOME dimension - why not go ahead and make it to the RIGHT dimension. But that's just me......

Be careful - I found that reducing the OD of the splines was actually more effective than deepening the groves of the splines. But too much, and it will quickly become TOO loose.
 
Over the weekend I was lubing the wagon after the recent trip and decided to open the Ross steering box — it had been a few years. When I removed the lower-most bolt, a couple of tablespoons of water came out. For whatever reason, these boxes seem to collect water.

I suspect the water got there last June during the Run for the Hills when we did a fairly deep creek crossing.

The boxes are designed such that a little water doesn’t really hurt, it just rests below the oil in the bottom of the box. Still, it isn’t good to have it in there long term.

Here’s @Inferno making that crossing.
D814849B-9561-4439-B2A1-68D4048AB342.jpeg
 
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