1951 Willys Wagon project

[Yaupon]

While I'd hoped to get everything set up for body removal today, not every step went as planned. Lots of time went to fighting rusty, seized fasteners. But the front clip is off - maybe tomorrow I'll get it turned around in the bay and set up for body removal.

I'm curious about this random hole in the hood (see attached photo). I don't know what this could have been for... Interested in ideas / suggestions.
Probably not a "speed hole"...

 

[Yaupon]

Also curious about these heavy tabs welded to the top of the frame (circled in photo). Previous owner said at one time planned to install a small block chevy engine, so maybe this is the beginning of that? Frame under the tabs seems perfectly fine...
these excavations are always interesting.

 

[AndyL]

While I'd hoped to get everything set up for body removal today, not every step went as planned. Lots of time went to fighting rusty, seized fasteners. But the front clip is off - maybe tomorrow I'll get it turned around in the bay and set up for body removal.

I'm curious about this random hole in the hood (see attached photo). I don't know what this could have been for... Interested in ideas / suggestions.
Probably not a "speed hole"...

Willy's Custom Modifications. WELD IT SHUT, LOL

 

[AndyL]

Also curious about these heavy tabs welded to the top of the frame (circled in photo). Previous owner said at one time planned to install a small block chevy engine, so maybe this is the beginning of that? Frame under the tabs seems perfectly fine...
these excavations are always interesting.

No steel plates on my 51 Wagon Frame in that spot. So, probably another after market customization. Mine has other special mods like putting axels under leaf springs for poor mans lift kit.

 

[Gojeep]

Probably was going to fit Ford 'Biscuit' engine mounts. Used a lot in engine conversions.

 

[Danno1133]

The roof's sheet metal of my Willys Wagon is great... (it apparently had a glued-on "vinyl roof" at one time - remember those?) However, the roof is "butt-sprung" ... I'd assume from people deciding it woud be fine to sit on the roof. My plan is to support the imploded regions roof panel with added, salvaged roof support rails. If I can locate such rails.

Yaupon -
When I was doing all my body work on my ‘60 wagon and was sanding the top it felt like oil-canning any second. So, I added 3 support ribs made from (metal not aluminum) “din” railing used for electronic cabinets for computers. It’s similar in shape to the old ribs, a hat channel.

Found it on eBay

DIN Rail Steel 1 Meter Long, Slotted, RoHS Compliant (10-Pack) 813101020019 | eBay

The DIN rail is made of steel.

www.ebay.com

IF, you can find it in 2 meter sections it is the full length + some. But each will be a different length. You can bend the ends with a plywood form to match the old support stays and they can fit flush to the underside of the roof. IF, you buy 1m lengths they are easer to work with and you can add or tack a spacer in the middle to make them tight to the roof. Make sure to place them where there is not a headliner rod. You can add supports.

My roof now is much more solid but I’m going to let anyone up there to sit or walk around.

Good luck.

 

[Yaupon]

Yaupon -
When I was doing all my body work on my ‘60 wagon and was sanding the top it felt like oil-canning any second. So, I added 3 support ribs made from (metal not aluminum) “din” railing used for electronic cabinets for computers. It’s similar in shape to the old ribs, a hat channel.

Found it on eBay View attachment 126995

DIN Rail Steel 1 Meter Long, Slotted, RoHS Compliant (10-Pack) 813101020019 | eBay

The DIN rail is made of steel.

www.ebay.com

IF, you can find it in 2 meter sections it is the full length + some. But each will be a different length. You can bend the ends with a plywood form to match the old support stays and they can fit flush to the underside of the roof. IF, you buy 1m lengths they are easer to work with and you can add or tack a spacer in the middle to make them tight to the roof. Make sure to place them where there is not a headliner rod. You can add supports.

My roof now is much more solid but I’m going to let anyone up there to sit or walk around.

Good luck.

That's awesome. I had pondered making new stringers from sheet metal - from scratch, but I don't think I have the skills. This seems much more reasonable. Good advice to avoid headliner bow locations. I currently have no headliner and no bows so I'll need to track down a photo or schematic.
I'd assume the shipping cost for 2 meter sections would make my eyes water... I'll be shopping for the 1 meter lengths!
Appreciate the tip.

 

[Yaupon]

Yesterday was kind of a wash. Didn't have much time to work on the wagon. I'd ordered in a new starter, based on many reports of success using the starter from early 80's Toyota Land Cruiser 4.2 Liter. It didn't fit. I don't know what the problem is... nose is too big for the hole.This will require some reading and pondering. So either be warned, or tell me what I'm missing. I used the Generic equivalent of a Duralast 16224.

Got the body off the frame today, with not much drama. Despite mid-90s F temperature and saturated humidity. The frame and drivetrain are all filthy but otherwise not too bad. Body looks pretty good.

 

[Yaupon]

As I started de-greasing and pressure washing the chassis I ran across this item - underneath about 1/2 inch of caked grime. It's a whittled-down stick in the vent hole. Might help explain why there is more grease on the outside of the diff vs. inside.

 

[rocket]

View attachment 127054

As I started de-greasing and pressure washing the chassis I ran across this item - underneath about 1/2 inch of caked grime. It's a whittled-down stick in the fill hole. Might help explain why there is more grease on the outside of the diff vs. inside.

Bubba Strikes Again!

 

[Yaupon]

Okay - I think maybe the reason for the Toyota Land Cruiser starter not working is coming into focus. I took another look at the bellhousing, now that the body is off. The starter mounting location definitely includes a hole for the starter's shaft, so now I think this is a "L-Head" bellhousing. And that would explain the Land Cruiser starter not fitting.
Can someone please confirm my suspicion / belief that this is a L-Head bellhousing (photo attached).
Thanks...

 

[rocket]

I can not Confirm or Deny that I was ever a member of the CIA or any other three letter government organization.

 

[Yaupon]

Okay - I think maybe the reason for the Toyota Land Cruiser starter not working is coming into focus. I took another look at the bellhousing, now that the body is off. The starter mounting location definitely includes a hole for the starter's shaft, so now I think this is a "L-Head" bellhousing. And that would explain the Land Cruiser starter not fitting.
Can someone please confirm my suspicion / belief that this is a L-Head bellhousing (photo attached).
Thanks...

Oh HolUp...
The plot thickens, again.
I had the impression, though not specifically stated, that a PO had planned to do a F134 to small block Chevy engine swap at some point. Now I'm thinking the opposite is what happened. Remember those "welded tabs" on the frame? I think those were once SBC motor mounts, cut off short later.
And the other, more immediately relevant issue... a sheet-steel spacer is between the F134 engine and the T90's bellhousing. I don't think that spacer belongs there... ??? I am beginning to think that spacer is also a remnant of a previous SBC swap, which was unfortunately left in...
That would probably explain why a Land Cruiser starter won't bolt up. And might explain why the F134's starter drive gear (judging from wear pattern) seems to only engage about the foreward 2/3 of the flywheel's ring gear.
Oh well, I was gonna pull the engine, regardless.

 

[JABJEEP]

That plate belongs there.

MB GPW Engine plate block to bellhousing U.S.A. -A5121 Vintagejeeps RFJP G503 MB GPW Part A5121 Jeep

MB GPW, MB GPW PartsEngine plate block to bellhousing U.S.A. -A5121,MB,GPW,A5121 Jeep G503 RFJP VintageJeeps

www.rfjp.com

Those mounts look similar to the "saddle" mounts for a SMC conversion like my '61 wagon has.

 

[Stakebed]

Bubba Strikes Again!

BSA

 

[rocket]

BSA

Actually it stands for Bas!@rd Stopped Again.

 

[Yaupon]

That plate belongs there.

MB GPW Engine plate block to bellhousing U.S.A. -A5121 Vintagejeeps RFJP G503 MB GPW Part A5121 Jeep

MB GPW, MB GPW PartsEngine plate block to bellhousing U.S.A. -A5121,MB,GPW,A5121 Jeep G503 RFJP VintageJeeps

www.rfjp.com

Those mounts look similar to the "saddle" mounts for a SMC conversion like my '61 wagon has.

Thanks!
I have no prior experience with the bellhousings on these, so I went to the Googles for example images. I'd convinced myself- from the images I found - that no plate was present... So yeah.
Still puzzled why a LandCruiser starter won't mount.

update: I found an interesting comment on an "old Jeep" oriented site, regarding starter / clutch / block spacer / bellhousing combos. Their comment was basically the flywheel, spacer plate, bellhousing etc. parts used between F head and L head is a stew of very-similar but not-identical parts. I of course have no idea. Just reading... Their advice was to swap it all as a package...
I suspect what I have is a LHead bellhousing, spacer plate and starter mounted on a FHead block. My current (moribund) foot switched starter does have about 3.2 inches of shaft extending from the mounting flange into a pilot hole in the bellhousing. So I think it's a LHead starter.
Since I'm taking it all apart anyway, my plan is to swap in a known F-Head bellhousing and spacer plate and run a Land Cruiser starter. I still don't know what flywheel / ring gear I currently have...

 

[Yaupon]

Found a source in Dallas offering a new, reduction-gear drive starter that supposedly bolts right up to my bellhousing / flywheel / adapter plate combination. Considering the extra cost and aggravation of a bellhousing swap just to use a Land Cruiser starter, the $200 for this one delivered sounds like a bargain. Assuming of course that it does bolt up.... It'll be on site in a couple of days, and we'll find out.
I learned that my current starter is stamped "MZ 4137", with a 9-tooth pinion gear - told that goes with a 124 tooth flywheel ring gear.
So progress I'd say.

 

[Yaupon]

New starter arrived - perfect fit. Bolted right up and cranks briskly. Patched together some wiring / solenoid and put a little fuel in carb bowl ... engine starts right up but dies out quickly once the prime is burned-through. Internals sound great, and engine has oil pressure. The carb looks like it's been sitting exposed to the elements for about 40 years, give or take.
Sooo... I'll be sorting out the fuel system next.
Very satisfied with the new starter as a work-around for my bellhousing situation.

 

[JABJEEP]

Found a source in Dallas offering a new, reduction-gear drive starter that supposedly bolts right up to my bellhousing / flywheel / adapter plate combination.

Very satisfied with the new starter as a work-around for my bellhousing situation.

New starter arrived - perfect fit. Bolted right up and cranks briskly.

Could you please share the source and post a picture of the reduction gear starter? Thanx!