My CJ3B Stalled Out

[Roger63CJ3B]

I was driving my '63 3B yesterday when the engine died after about 20 minutes. Luckily I was in a parking lot when it happened. After 30 minutes or so it started up and I made it home. Attempts to start prior to that failed. Sometime it would just turn and not catch. Other times it would run for a couple seconds and die again. It was too late to look at it when I got home so I haven't checked the fuel filter yet, but I'll do that tonight.

I read about vapor lock, fuel tank ventilation, and the coil.

I need a new fuel cap anyway. I think it should be ventilated, correct?

I'm really not sure what the coil has to do with it given the symptoms so I'm leaning towards vapor lock being the problem. Is my fuel line too close to the exhaust or valve cover? I've heard that I could slide a rubber hose over the steel line to provide insulation or switch to a rubber hose all together. If I do that it will likely be just as close and lay right across the valve cover. I have some old fuel pumps I can rebuild. I've heard the glass bowls insulate better. Is that true?

Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

 

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

My rubber lines run about the same way on my 61' CJ5 F head, normal vapor lock usually happens quickly and can be muddled through.
I am thinking your issue is in the ignition system once hot, then regresses when cooled. Coil or distributor condenser.

FYI. I am located in the deep south so hot and humid. Vapor lock occurred when I ran the Jeep about 10 hrs from North Alabama to South MS, as stated, I could muddle through it until it cleared up. It never lasted long, more of an annoyance, especially when filling up with chilled fuel from a tank in the ground and the engine was warmed up real good.

For ignition parts, I highly recommend Brillman Company for wires/condensers. I run a Beru oil filled coil, made in Brazil modeled off the blue Bosche very popular with performance VW/Porsche crowd.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

My rubber lines run about the same way on my 61' CJ5 F head, normal vapor lock usually happens quickly and can be muddled through.
I am thinking your issue is in the ignition system once hot, then regresses when cooled. Coil or distributor condenser.

Thanks! I happen to have an new in the box NGK coil. I'll install that first. For my education, what is the thought process that leads you to thing the problem is electrical? I wouldn't have guessed that.

 

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

Thanks! I happen to have an new in the box NGK coil. I'll install that first. For my education, what is the thought process that leads you to thing the problem is electrical? I wouldn't have guessed that.

ran, then died for 20 minutes, intermittent fire up. Usually indicative of a faulty ignition component. Make sure it's a 3ohm coil and not internally resisted as there should be a stock ballast resistor wired into the OEM harness.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

ran, then died for 20 minutes, intermittent fire up. Usually indicative of a faulty ignition component. Make sure it's a 3ohm coil and not internally resisted as there should be a stock ballast resistor wired into the OEM harness.

Thanks. According to the NGK website it is compatible and needs an external resistor.

 

[Oldpappy]

Steel fuel lines are better than rubber lines with clamps, unless you just like air leaks. Proper set up only includes one flex line from the frame line to pump. This line should have crimped on flare fittings, not just a rubber line with clamps. The rest of the lines should be steel with flare fittings.

Nothing in your pictures would indicate anything too close to the manifold. Vapor lock is unlikely to be your problem. I know it gets mentioned often, but it usually isn't the real problem. I have driven Jeeps and other old cars for more than 50 years in the Southern heat, and have never encountered vapor lock.

My grandfather was a bus driver in the city of Chattanooga when I was a kid and those old busses did indeed suffer the condition because the engines were in an enclosure with inadequate ventilation. All of the bus drivers he worked with carried a small ice chest with their lunch, and a grapefruit. If they encountered "vapor lock" they would cut the cold grapefruit in half and shove a half over the fuel pump to cool it off, it not they would usually eat the grapefruit at the end of their shift.

I agree it is more likely an ignition component which is failing after getting hot. This is a common problem with the imported tune up kits, especially the condensers, a lot of suppliers sell. I have used "Blue Streak" points and condensers for years and never had a problem.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

Nothing in your pictures would indicate anything too close to the manifold. Vapor lock is unlikely to be your problem. I know it gets mentioned often, but it usually isn't the real problem.

Thanks for reviewing them. I wasn't sure how close was "too close" to the manifold.

It didn't stall at all last summer. I usually stick to about 20mph but this time is that I got it up to about 40mph. I've never had it that fast but I'm sure it was sufficient enough to increase the heat in the engine compartment. It didn't stall right away. It took another 5 minutes before it happened.

I replaced the coil to see if that helps. If it stalls again I change out the condenser. I'm not sure if/when it will happen again this summer. I got a death wobble after I slowed down and turned a corner - obviously not something I want to chance at 40mph with 30 year old steering components.

I do have plans to replace the tie rods, tie rod ends, bell crank, pitman arm, and install a drag link repair kit. Should I install a new drag link too or is the repair kit sufficient? I don't want to go through the hassle of removing the gear box unless it's really necessary.

 

[Blue Duck]

ran, then died for 20 minutes, intermittent fire up. Usually indicative of a faulty ignition component. Make sure it's a 3ohm coil and not internally resisted as there should be a stock ballast resistor wired into the OEM harness.

Thanks! I happen to have an new in the box NGK coil. I'll install that first. For my education, what is the thought process that leads you to thing the problem is electrical? I wouldn't have guessed that.

When the coil starts going bad it overheats and won’t conduct electricity, then after it cools off it will run again. Hard to diagnose sometimes. Same with the condenser, a lot of folks Cary a spare.

 

[Blue Duck]

If you are running an external ballast resistor for sure check it. They can look good on the outside but the coils in back can be burned and crusty. It will actually show to be getting current thru it, just not enough to run right .

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

If you are running an external ballast resistor for sure check it. They can look good on the outside but the coils in back can be burned and crusty. It will actually show to be getting current thru it, just not enough to run right .

This is probably a dumb question but where is the resistor and what does it look like? I'm certain I have one because the vehicle has had very little work/maintenance performed in the past. The SM talks about it in the voltage regulator section but I don't see it on the wiring diagram.

 

[Blue Duck]

It’s a white porcelain piece with a wire in and out. Has a coil in back of it. When I first bought this Jeep the resistor was up under the dash, like to never found it. One wire will go directly to your coil.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

I haven't seen that in the engine compartment. I'll contort myself under the dash and see if I can find it.

 

[Blue Duck]

May not have an external resistor, your coil may be internal resistor, should say on the side.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

May not have an external resistor, your coil may be internal resistor, should say on the side.

I cannot find a resistor under the dash and there isn't one in the engine compartment either. The ignition coil I installed requires an external resistor. It works anyway - would it work without a resistor?

I cannot figure out if the vehicle is supposed to have one or not. A search for "resistor" in the SM shows 4 results, all in the paragraph about the voltage regulator. This leads me to believe the vehicle came with an internally resisted coil. But I could be wrong.

What do I need to know to purchase one and install it?

 

[oblvnnwtnjhn]

I cannot find a resistor under the dash and there isn't one in the engine compartment either. The ignition coil I installed requires an external resistor. It works anyway - would it work without a resistor?

I cannot figure out if the vehicle is supposed to have one or not. A search for "resistor" in the SM shows 4 results, all in the paragraph about the voltage regulator. This leads me to believe the vehicle came with an internally resisted coil. But I could be wrong.

What do I need to know to purchase one and install it?

Coils with ~1.5 ohm resistance need an external resistor while coils with ~3 ohms do not. A modern coil labeled with "do not use external
resistor" says so because it has extra resistance already wired into the primary. Not a separate "discrete" unit, but the extra resistance is still
there.

Side note, if your engine is healthy, good compression, I would send my distributor into Advanced Distributors for a full rebuild and recurve. It will be "tuned" specifically for your engine, the type of fuel used etc. https://www.advanceddistributors.com/

You'll gain peak performance and reliability from your ignition and engine performance. I found a spare on here, sent that one in for rebuild so I could keep driving. Eventually I will send the other one in for the works as a spare.

 

[Stakebed]

I cannot find a resistor under the dash and there isn't one in the engine compartment either. The ignition coil I installed requires an external resistor. It works anyway - would it work without a resistor?

Yes but the coil will overheat and eventually fail if it's an external resistor type and you supply full battery voltage to it.

BTW, a side note. Ford/Willys starter solenoids can have two small studs. One stud activates the solenoid. The other stud is for sending full battery voltage to the coil but only during engine cranking with the starter motor. This was done to ease cold starting by providing a temporary, hotter spark. Something for everyone to consider.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

Side note, if your engine is healthy, good compression, I would send my distributor into Advanced Distributors for a full rebuild and recurve. It will be "tuned" specifically for your engine, the type of fuel used etc. https://www.advanceddistributors.com/

My engine is not "healthy" enough to do this. It needs a rebuild because it's leaking oil in about three different places. :} It was rebuilt in the late '80s and that was the last time it got the proper attention. It gets the job done for now so I'm working on other things before I do a full overhaul.

 

[Roger63CJ3B]

Yes but the coil will overheat and eventually fail if it's an external resistor type and you supply full battery voltage to it.

So I rechecked the coil I installed. It says "12v use with primary resistance wire or external resistor 067". I'm not sure what a primary resistance wire is?

 

[Stakebed]

So I rechecked the coil I installed. It says "12v use with primary resistance wire or external resistor 067". I'm not sure what a primary resistance wire is?

It is a wire with built in electrical resistance to drop 12v to 8v.

 

[Blue Duck]

So I rechecked the coil I installed. It says "12v use with primary resistance wire or external resistor 067". I'm not sure what a primary resistance wire is?

If I remember right GM used the resistance wire as opposed to a ballast resistor. Your coil needs one or the other, as mentioned, your coil is probably bad now. You could just get an internal resistor coil and wire it correctly. Gotta go look at the Chilton manuall.