Questioning My Sanity: A FC-170 Build
- Thread starter Tilatobawillys
- Start date
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
Speaking of the Tornado, I ended picking another one up. Haha. I was merely looking for one to be able to mockup under the FC to remove the 226 mounts and install the 230 ones but ended up being pointed to this one by @timd32 from @8inarow. It fit the bill nicely and I made the trek to go get it driving straight through 20 hours total and using my usual Tornado retrieval wagon as seen below. Engine looks great-like really great-and I can't thank 8inarow and Tim enough for the great lead/deal. There is a lot here to love. Like I said above it was just going to be for mocking up, but I am strongly considering a rebuild at this point if I can get another engine for parts as well...just call me obsessed with 230s and FCs at this point.
As you will note it was all dry and hunky dory above. So I got home, went to bed, and thought well it will only be outside for one night and then be taken to a covered shelter, what could go wrong? Turns out that the 30% chance of snow they called for was like 150% of what they had predicted.
So after a slippery and arduous drive to where it would slumber for a short while, I unloaded it and had to muse to myself about the amazing Tornado that was getting ready to touch down. Or to quote Tim, a "Tornado Alert."
Then it was merely a matter of putting it into its new temporary home. Jeep-the vehicle with 1,000 uses...or was that issues?
Slumber peacefully my friend. You will emerge soon to a new home.
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So much WOW!
Vintage Don
Well Oiled
It was "issues." Hahaha!
Great looking engine, cool find.
Great looking engine, cool find.
54 wagon ken
Well Oiled
Nice 20 hour Tornado grab Dale… sounds familiar.
- Sep 20, 2017
- 6,538
- First Name
- Jeff
- Willys Model
- Wagon
- Pickup
- CJ
- Willys Year:
- 1955
- 1958
- 1962
Dale, is there any difference between the FC-150 (or 170?) bed (and tailgate) and the standard pickup bed? I never noticed before, but that picture makes me think they're the same. BTW, how did my bumper compare to the FC frame?
Alot to work with there, it was a good piece for sure, at the same time I understand the frustration that led to it coming out of his Willys.
Glad to share the leads, if one of us can't use it always better to pass it on.
Glad to share the leads, if one of us can't use it always better to pass it on.
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
Nice 20 hour Tornado grab Dale… sounds familiar.
The crazy things we do for love.
FC150-Bed is almost completely different. Tailgate has a different shape (think rounded instead of squared) and so does the bed in many ways/dimensions.
FC170-Same overall height/angles as truck bed but longer overall and stake pocket spacing is different along with frame skirts. Stay tuned for how to make a truck bed into a 170 bed...in 5,000,000 easy steps.
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
Small push ahead on some Tornado parts. Got the HB all painted after being rebuilt and the timing marks painted as well. That was a little tough as some of the reliefs weren't as deep as others due to wear.
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
Back to the bed shall we? Ended up rebuilding that rear crossmember a total of 3 times and that was why there was a large delay here pushing ahead. Used the cut and splice method as outlined on page 9 with the original reproduction but then just had pieces formed with curves added to expedite the re-dos and only leave the holes to be drilled. The biggest issue on all the crossmembers? Warping from heat. Both my friend and I learned that small welds and a lot of air when doing body work are essential if you aren't a metal magician such as @Gojeep or @Vintage Don. So we took our time and added things slowly. Unfortunately, we still had some deflection on the ends as shown by the washers (lower profile was the one that fit) after the 3rd time and definitely wanted to throw in the towel.
As a desperation move after all that hard work not being perfect again, I took it to a guy with a press and asked if this part could be straightened out. To make a long story short, he said that without reforming the piece from scratch he couldn't guarantee anything and that if he was me, he would just try bolting it to where it would sit and go from there as the deflection was less than 1/32" when he measured. He also stressed that in the future such a complex piece requires a welding table and perhaps turning down the voltage as well to be successful. Guy builds tractors for pulling and race cars, so I think he probably knows a thing or two about a thing or two. With that knowledge/advice, we bolted the bed crossmember to the rear frame crossmember, and crossed our fingers...
A success! The deflection was less than 1/64" when it was bolted to the crossmember. All that angst for nothing I guess?. We quickly drilled the crossmember for the "spot welds" (before the metal gremlins returned) and welded it to the bed with careful checking of the overhang each weld to make sure that no new warpage occurred.
Then we welded in all but one of the other crossmembers too. It was a long night but when you're hot, you're hot!
More body work on the way...
As a desperation move after all that hard work not being perfect again, I took it to a guy with a press and asked if this part could be straightened out. To make a long story short, he said that without reforming the piece from scratch he couldn't guarantee anything and that if he was me, he would just try bolting it to where it would sit and go from there as the deflection was less than 1/32" when he measured. He also stressed that in the future such a complex piece requires a welding table and perhaps turning down the voltage as well to be successful. Guy builds tractors for pulling and race cars, so I think he probably knows a thing or two about a thing or two. With that knowledge/advice, we bolted the bed crossmember to the rear frame crossmember, and crossed our fingers...
A success! The deflection was less than 1/64" when it was bolted to the crossmember. All that angst for nothing I guess?
. We quickly drilled the crossmember for the "spot welds" (before the metal gremlins returned) and welded it to the bed with careful checking of the overhang each weld to make sure that no new warpage occurred.Then we welded in all but one of the other crossmembers too. It was a long night but when you're hot, you're hot!
More body work on the way...
Vintage Don
Well Oiled
Love it, good job.
Looking good Dale. Brings back a lot of memories..............
rocket
Well Oiled
Good Work!
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
Well even a dummy like me knows that the next step is to add the header and sides to the bed. So, the header was set in place with clamping after making sure it was centered and then tacked twice on the underside to give it some minor rigidity but still allow "flex" to and fro for proper fitment of the sides.
The sides (remember those from forever ago???) were then mocked up and set in place. At this point one side was already drilled for plug welds but the other needed to be drilled and was done so accordingly using the opposite as a pattern.
Next was the process of filling plug welds one by one on the sides (making sure all was square with the header) and then the bottoms. You can see that we serious folk use a wooden measuring stick in the tailgate opening to allow setting of the rear portions of the sides while the front portions were tacked (there was also another wooden jig in place at the bottom of the tailgate opening that was removed for these pictures). A builder's square was used to make sure the sides were in line with the "skirts" already stamped/attached to the floor of the bed prior to the plug welds joining them being filled. I will note at this point that the bed mounts were attached to the frame, and this allowed us to get the floor fairly even with the sides. At times though, it was necessary to jack up parts of the bed floor (not excessively so) to allow for tight fitment of the sides to the bottom. We generally went in order from the front of the bed to the rear, but also found that at times jumping to the rear one or two and then moving back towards the front would aid in getting the sides/bottom aligned. It was a nervous few hours after our last warpage issues with the rear crossmember, but we conquered it at last.
Below is a final picture of the welds and the bed sides set in place. We quit here for the night but plan to add stake pockets before the end of next week. Stay tuned!
The sides (remember those from forever ago???) were then mocked up and set in place. At this point one side was already drilled for plug welds but the other needed to be drilled and was done so accordingly using the opposite as a pattern.
Next was the process of filling plug welds one by one on the sides (making sure all was square with the header) and then the bottoms. You can see that we serious folk
use a wooden measuring stick in the tailgate opening to allow setting of the rear portions of the sides while the front portions were tacked (there was also another wooden jig in place at the bottom of the tailgate opening that was removed for these pictures). A builder's square was used to make sure the sides were in line with the "skirts" already stamped/attached to the floor of the bed prior to the plug welds joining them being filled. I will note at this point that the bed mounts were attached to the frame, and this allowed us to get the floor fairly even with the sides. At times though, it was necessary to jack up parts of the bed floor (not excessively so) to allow for tight fitment of the sides to the bottom. We generally went in order from the front of the bed to the rear, but also found that at times jumping to the rear one or two and then moving back towards the front would aid in getting the sides/bottom aligned. It was a nervous few hours after our last warpage issues with the rear crossmember, but we conquered it at last.Below is a final picture of the welds and the bed sides set in place. We quit here for the night but plan to add stake pockets before the end of next week. Stay tuned!
Vintage Don
Well Oiled
That's awesome, looks excellent. Yes, it's really hard to keep that joint between the bed side lip and the floor pulled tightly closed!
Looking like a 170 bed! Did you use the weld through primer? It has gotten stupid priced here. $92.00 a can !?!?!?!
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
No weld through primer here Joe. Going to have the bed dipped and e-coated prior to body work. I prefer this for many reasons to now include cost.
Speaking of body work though, more has happened. Ended up getting the stake pockets in place over the past week. The most annoying part? Well, there are many and most were related to the pocket size/placement. Now I will say full disclosure I bought these without a ton of knowledge about truck beds other than what I could gather from Don's truck/my own but that was only to measure rough dimensions to see if a truck bed could be slightly modified to create a FC bed. It appeared as though this was true by merely extending the sides/bottom to the right lengths as I noted a few pages back. Bearing that in mind, I spoke with the vender that sells the reproduction truck beds and was assured that "...you don't need to worry about those stake pockets/spacing, they will fit with no problem even on a FC." This was after he also told me the sides/floor would have to be extended to make them fit size wise, so we at least agreed on that. Unfortunately, the vender was incorrect on multiple fronts re: stake pockets. Not only did the stake pockets not fit well, but they needed to be drilled to weld them to the crossmembers (as seen on the rear one here) and the bed floor like the factory. The stake pockets were also the wrong length and had to be trimmed down to fit. Those were the first issues. Also note the rear most bed crossmember cut into the rear most stake pocket and as such the stake pocket had to be notched; just like the way the factory did it on FC 170s/ and Trucks.
Another special annoyance was the front stake pockets for several reasons. First, there are two 1/2" holes drilled through them (holes present on the header and bed sides from this vendor) for an internal angle iron bracket. However, there are no holes drilled in the stake pockets...which probably could have helped index them faster for placement vs me figuring it out from scratch...also take heed of the overhang of the stake pockets in relation to the bed floor below, necessitating grinding to fit (seen in bottom of picture).
Pocket drilling....
Another observation at this time was that the header actually goes outside the bed sides vs the inside like the factory. This causes a little funkiness to the stake pockets that really won't be noticed by 90% of people but I do and it annoys me.
. Sorry, there are no pictures of that...However, I have some of the final annoyance which stems from this-->the stake pocket spacing.
Again, the vendor was asked specifically about this, and I was told "don't worry." Again, that vendor was wrong. Ended up using the old bed for measurements and marking where the new pockets should go. Used a drill/Dremel to cut out where the new pockets should be so as not to remove too much metal. What's a little more time and effort at this point though?
Then the pocket flaps were bent into place and the old pockets sealed up.
Picture of the underside. I have learned by this time it is ok to leave the metal a little rough looking vs grinding away so much making it flat and pretty that instead you make a divot.
Finally, after all that the middle two stake pockets were added. These went on without a hitch but again the longer of the two will need trimmed/ground off to be flush with the bottom of the bed.
The moral of the Truck to FC bed story is that it might be better to re-use as much of the original bed as possible and just buy the preformed stake pockets or save your old ones and patch them. Still more to come as we take the bed off and "fix" the underside (yes there were more issues-spoiler alert. I will be sure point them out but try not to rag on anyone anymore. I just wanted to make clear to future persons attempting this what the big issues are and that vendors can be wrong).
Rudy had that custom bed made up from Mar-K with a bunch of small tweaks, I have a factory bed sitting at the house that I need to replace some stake pockets on, so interesting following this one.
www.oldwillysforum.com
Looks great.
Near-reproduction pickup box
Just a little progress update on my 1957 Willys pickup box. Being produced by Mar-K Industries using a 1948-1950 series GM pickup box. Length correct, stake pocket placement correct and cross sills being installed in correct locations. Box will be slightly taller. Mid state pocket slightly...
Looks great.
Great result! FC's are a "special" kind of Willys pain! LOL
Tilatobawillys
Well Oiled
Rudy had that custom bed made up from Mar-K with a bunch of small tweaks, I have a factory bed sitting at the house that I need to replace some stake pockets on, so interesting following this one.
Near-reproduction pickup box
Just a little progress update on my 1957 Willys pickup box. Being produced by Mar-K Industries using a 1948-1950 series GM pickup box. Length correct, stake pocket placement correct and cross sills being installed in correct locations. Box will be slightly taller. Mid state pocket slightly...
Looks great.
Thanks Tim. Like Joe said above, FC's are a special kind of pain.
The pain continues on the bed. After fitting the stake pockets my friend and I flipped the bed over to start tackling the underside. Again, some of the things that I was told would be fine were not including the frame skirt holes as well as the location of the wheel well arches. Required a little bit more finagling but not nearly as bad as the previous parts like floor, stake pockets, header, etc. So less complaining and more pictures! Ended up getting the truck rear wheel well arches cut out and straight patches placed pretty quickly.
How about a closer look at those patches in the back...
You might notice the sharpied "fill circle" to the left of the above patch. Turns out we had to fill in all of the skirt mounting holes as none of them lined up for the FC vs the truck and then drill new ones/"oval" them out with the Dremel. That job wasn't nearly as bad as many of the others we have done though.
The above picture also shows another patch was added to the passenger side of the bed to fill in an extra wheel well hole. Figured a zoomed-out picture might help compare to some of the others in this post.
At this point, you careful viewers might say (lookin' at you @Stakebed ) when did the new rear new wheel well arches get added? And they are round?!? Yep, the FC used some very simple curves/shapes vs the truck bed so that made us happy that it could be tackled in the same night while some of the other stuff was banged out. Cut, weld, grind, repeat and it turns out looking half baked!
After a night or two more on the underside fixing a few small things, we should be just about ready to start connecting the fenders and frame skirts so that will be exciting. Also have a few non-bed irons in the fire!