Military generators and differences between them.

[Raven6]

FOund an old document that lists the configuation differences between the early war style and postwar style with great
detail. I am attaching the 4 relevant pages, and will provide as needed if questions arise. This has been most helpful iin
differentiation of MB versions and 441 Willys and Willys industrial - my rather interesting unit.
POWER UNITS PE-95-A, -B, -Ci, -F, -G, AND H-
The pages of interest are #3, #4, and #5 for various engines specs/ ie Ford, MBWillys, and JPWillys. The differing conversations
on power
are revealed, as one series is 1200 RPM standard, the other 1800 RPM. The F model for example notes MB-441, while mine
apppears to be JP-441.
been slowly working to arrange around issues of Carburetor, intake and the fact the head has industrial cast into it. Bore issues
having a 1 inch bore, and a heat protection plate 1 inch, and a ( square bore ) governor overspeed base between carb and manifold
and other elements is delaying startup. Have spark to the plugs, so am gaining.
The carborator number is 0-614 and is a Carter, and I note that KeizerWillys has a replacement base that I might be able to use and
salvage the upper. Slooked sown the bore with a light, and the bore narrows right at theintersection of the two pieces, upper nd lower.
If anyone has a yea or nay on that, it would be nice.
Also, reroofing my house. Beings out the joints that need lubrication for sure.
Anyway thanks for being their all, and be safe. LT

 

[Oldpappy]

In addition to the governor, small bore carb and intake, the distributor probably doesn't have spark advance since these things were designed to run at a constant RPM. I wouldn't worry about the industrial head just yet, but there is a Jeep head recently listed in the CJ2A classifieds. I am not sure whether you can swap out the throttle body on the carb, and there may be other differences. Rebuildable cores can usually be found for around $50. They almost always need bushings installed in the throttle shaft bores, or a new throttle body, so if you do buy the replacement throttle body and it doesn't work for that generator carb it would come in useful on a rebuild of the appropriate WO.

Gensets are very often a good source for a engine with a lot of life left in it.

 

[WA7OPY]

One more biggie, a lot of the gen set engines not not have counterweights on the crankshaft! at 1200 or even 1800 there was very little need for them, in a jeep very necessary...Phil

 

[Raven6]

In addition to the governor, small bore carb and intake, the distributor probably doesn't have spark advance since these things were designed to run at a constant RPM. I wouldn't worry about the industrial head just yet, but there is a Jeep head recently listed in the CJ2A classifieds. I am not sure whether you can swap out the throttle body on the carb, and there may be other differences. Rebuildable cores can usually be found for around $50. They almost always need bushings installed in the throttle shaft bores, or a new throttle body, so if you do buy the replacement throttle body and it doesn't work for that generator carb it would come in useful on a rebuild of the appropriate WO.

Gensets are very often a good source for a engine with a lot of life left in it.

Well, other than the little issues noted, and some that will arise, my incentive is the engine has 80 hrs, on the hobbs, and still had the brown Bakelite distributer cap etc. Thanks for the informaiton.

 

[Raven6]

One more biggie, a lot of the gen set engines not not have counterweights on the crankshaft! at 1200 or even 1800 there was very little need for them, in a jeep very necessary...Phil

Best take a peek after I get it running a few minutes to listen for rattles and squeaks - thank you for the tip.

 

[Oldpappy]

I had forgotten about the possibility of not having counter weights on the crankshaft. It seems to be a hit or miss thing, most of them I have seen did have them, but I have read that some were built without the weights. So, good idea to pull the pan and look, or perhaps you can run one of those little cameras in through the dip stick tube or oil drain plug hole.

 

[HeadnNorth]

Well, other than the little issues noted, and some that will arise, my incentive is the engine has 80 hrs, on the hobbs, and still had the brown Bakelite distributer cap etc. Thanks for the informaiton.

I'm running with an L134 Industrial which is said to be from a Hobart Welder... had a Hobart Governor on it as well. This engine runs fantastic, smooth, doesn't smoke. Still running with the Industrial head, but have another head from my last Willys Jeep engine (that went south). Changes that I can recall included: Change-over to Carter WO carb and linkage, Front Motor Mount bracket swap (CJ2a to CJ3a type), Intake and Exhaust manifolds, used existing 3a Bell housing, perhaps a few other things I can't remember, but nothing major I don't believe. I am using the existing distributor that was on it. Good luck with your engine, hope it goes well for you.

 

[Raven6]

I'm running with an L134 Industrial which is said to be from a Hobart Welder... had a Hobart Governor on it as well. This engine runs fantastic, smooth, doesn't smoke. Still running with the Industrial head, but have another head from my last Willys Jeep engine (that went south). Changes that I can recall included: Change-over to Carter WO carb and linkage, Front Motor Mount bracket swap (CJ2a to CJ3a type), Intake and Exhaust manifolds, used existing 3a Bell housing, perhaps a few other things I can't remember, but nothing major I don't believe. I am using the existing distributor that was on it. Good luck with your engine, hope it goes well for you.

Most generous thanks. It is my belief that most all will be well. Have too a degree followed in your steps, just in thought that the intake is mostly choked by the small bore and heat protection plate. This is going into one CJ2 or a CJ3, so used my CJ2 bell, flywheel was never used, as the generator started the motor. Compression might be a tiny bit lower, ( industrial head ) while if necessary I have a finished henry J Supersonic head that might be fun to put on. The final use is as a Farm tractor version, as both had PTO assessories of some kind, so feel putting back somewhat is ok.
Again, thanks so much for your note. LT

 

[HeadnNorth]

Certainly welcome and YES, now that you mention it, I actually did need to swap-in my old Flywheel as the replacement engine had none (I should have taken notes of my steps I guess ). I likely had to swap in the larger heat plate as well from my old engine. For me, the biggest challenge ended-up being the Mounting bracket swap.... my old engine did NOT want to let loose of the Timing gear, no way, now how, while the timing gear removal in the replacement engine was a snap. It's always something that hangs us up.

 

[Raven6]

Certainly welcome and YES, now that you mention it, I actually did need to swap-in my old Flywheel as the replacement engine had none (I should have taken notes of my steps I guess ). I likely had to swap in the larger heat plate as well from my old engine. For me, the biggest challenge ended-up being the Mounting bracket swap.... my old engine did NOT want to let loose of the Timing gear, no way, now how, while the timing gear removal in the replacement engine was a snap. It's always something that hangs us up.

Yep - agreed. There appears to be three distict versions of engines. Do you have an engine serial perhaps? might start gathering them, to assist other crazies like us. Thats why they invented beer and scotch, to ease the pain. Or root beer being one for the teatotlar. No offense, I could include cigars, while not wanting to offend anyone with bar humor. Be well. LT

 

[Greaser007]

I owned a Lincoln SA-200 Pipeliner welder / trailer mount for too many decades.
It was powered by a Continental L-head 4-cyl with dizzy on opposite side than a Willys L134.
The thing welded like a dream, super smooth and dependable. It used an updraft carb and magneto ignition.
Every 5-years or so, I would fire it up, BUT usually had to loosen the carb to then pull the mag, to then clean the points in the mag for the engine to have spark. One day I decided i'm selling the welder and will never again have to pull the gosh dang Magneto.

Oh, so the "first time" that I posted it for sale, a prospective buyer asked: "Does the exciter work" ?
Hmm, what the hell is an "Exciter" other than a Stripper-Dancer girl. LoL
At that point, I deleted my ad, and began research on how to TROUBLE-SHOOT the exciter. That was interesting.
The steel tubing that led from the manifold to the kick-up diaphragm was plugged in the middle.
All else was good, and the Exciter worked very well when striking an arc.
Now, the next time I placed an ad to sell the machine, I had a "yes" answer, and the first guy to try the welder bought it happily. He was a young chap looking for an SA-200 specific. His weld beads looked like machine welding.

I acquired a Hobart portable welder several years back, and it has an MB engine with no carb.
Have I checked the hour meter ? _ _ not sure it has one.

 

[Raven6]

I owned a Lincoln SA-200 Pipeliner welder / trailer mount for too many decades.
It was powered by a Continental L-head 4-cyl with dizzy on opposite side than a Willys L134.
The thing welded like a dream, super smooth and dependable. It used an updraft carb and magneto ignition.
Every 5-years or so, I would fire it up, BUT usually had to loosen the carb to then pull the mag, to then clean the points in the mag for the engine to have spark. One day I decided i'm selling the welder and will never again have to pull the gosh dang Magneto.

Oh, so the "first time" that I posted it for sale, a prospective buyer asked: "Does the exciter work" ?
Hmm, what the hell is an "Exciter" other than a Stripper-Dancer girl. LoL
At that point, I deleted my ad, and began research on how to TROUBLE-SHOOT the exciter. That was interesting.
The steel tubing that led from the manifold to the kick-up diaphragm was plugged in the middle.
All else was good, and the Exciter worked very well when striking an arc.
Now, the next time I placed an ad to sell the machine, I had a "yes" answer, and the first guy to try the welder bought it happily. He was a young chap looking for an SA-200 specific. His weld beads looked like machine welding.

I acquired a Hobart portable welder several years back, and it has an MB engine with no carb.
Have I checked the hour meter ? _ _ not sure it has one.

The verion you have probably had a Carter WO carberator, and if you measure the bore, and have a 1" bore, the consortium engines might have
a standard head, or a bit lower horsepower, the specs. I posted might give you answers. Some appear to be standard, with just add ones, later, more ( relative ) sophisticated, and then mine completly industrial, carb, overspeed, governor, intake and head. RPM, is 1200 for the most early
( it appears ) while later, mine for example is 1800 RPM. Part of the reason, a few comments note not much power, while some are better in that
area.
Another subject. At 80 yrs, my welds look like spot welds from my shaky hand. My first boss, and I miss him still could weld a seam that I literally did not have to touch up. He built custom 40' specialty trailers of all kinds. Back in the day - Nice visiting 007. LT

 

[JABJEEP]

I acquired a Hobart portable welder several years back, and it has an MB engine with no carb.

Does it still need one? This is from a WOF (Willys-Overland, France) Hotchkis PE-95 generator from about 1964. I installed most of the engine in my GPW (it runs great!) and this is left over. It's not doing me much good taking up storage space and collecting dust, and there's not much demand for them. I think I can fit it in a Flat-Rate box if I separate the carb and intake manifold. Give me your address and pay for shipping and it will be heading your way ASAP.

 

[WA7OPY]

I owned a Lincoln SA-200 Pipeliner welder / trailer mount for too many decades.
It was powered by a Continental L-head 4-cyl with dizzy on opposite side than a Willys L134.
The thing welded like a dream, super smooth and dependable. It used an updraft carb and magneto ignition.
Every 5-years or so, I would fire it up, BUT usually had to loosen the carb to then pull the mag, to then clean the points in the mag for the engine to have spark. One day I decided i'm selling the welder and will never again have to pull the gosh dang Magneto.

Oh, so the "first time" that I posted it for sale, a prospective buyer asked: "Does the exciter work" ?
Hmm, what the hell is an "Exciter" other than a Stripper-Dancer girl. LoL
At that point, I deleted my ad, and began research on how to TROUBLE-SHOOT the exciter. That was interesting.
The steel tubing that led from the manifold to the kick-up diaphragm was plugged in the middle.
All else was good, and the Exciter worked very well when striking an arc.
Now, the next time I placed an ad to sell the machine, I had a "yes" answer, and the first guy to try the welder bought it happily. He was a young chap looking for an SA-200 specific. His weld beads looked like machine welding.

I acquired a Hobart portable welder several years back, and it has an MB engine with no carb.
Have I checked the hour meter ? _ _ not sure it has one.

The SA 200 was one of the machines that the engineers got everything right, 80 years old and still is in high demand!...Phil

 

[Raven6]

Does it still need one? This is from a WOF (Willys-Overland, France) Hotchkis PE-95 generator from about 1964. I installed most of the engine in my GPW (it runs great!) and this is left over. It's not doing me much good taking up storage space and collecting dust, and there's not much demand for them. I think I can fit it in a Flat-Rate box if I separate the carb and intake manifold. Give me your address and pay for shipping and it will be heading your way ASAP.

View attachment 164416

Wow - Address: 13790 S Mueller RD Oregon City, Oregon 97045 - Let me know costs - E mail for that discussion- bbrocketb@bctonline.com
Most kind, and generous. Be blessed, and well. LT

 

[JABJEEP]

Sorry about any confusion, but the offer was made to @Greaser007 because he mentioned that he had a welder that was missing the carb. If he turns it down you can have it it you like. You need to know that it's stationary engine specific, and won't work (well, it would run, but not very fast) on a vehicle. Ball's in Leonards court for now.

 

[WA7OPY]

Sorry about any confusion, but the offer was made to @Greaser007 because he mentioned that he had a welder that was missing the carb. If he turns it down you can have it it you like. You need to know that it's stationary engine specific, and won't work (well, it would run, but not very fast) on a vehicle. Ball's in Leonards court for now.

It will not work on a welder, full hp and rpm is needed, the engine was de-tuned for a gen set at 1200/1800 rpm and 5kw/ 10kw ( about 16 hp)...phil

 

[Raven6]

Sorry about any confusion, but the offer was made to @Greaser007 because he mentioned that he had a welder that was missing the carb. If he turns it down you can have it it you like. You need to know that it's stationary engine specific, and won't work (well, it would run, but not very fast) on a vehicle. Ball's in Leonards court for now.

Thats ok, my interest was in the manifold if it might be better bore size than mine in the throat. Mine is only 1". My expectation with my Gen rated at 1800 RPM, anything might help. If he likes the carb idea, when you, or if you separate and he is possibly not needing the manifold, and it has a
bore of 1 1/2 " or so - I have no manifold of normal throat to check against, let me know.
lt

 

[JABJEEP]

That's a big part of the problem, the generators have the small bore intake manifold, so this one won't help you. It's most likely the same as what you have. Have you posted a wanted ad for a "regular" one? They're not really that rare.

 

[Raven6]

That's a big part of the problem, the generators have the small bore intake manifold, so this one won't help you. It's most likely the same as what you have. Have you posted a wanted ad for a "regular" one? They're not really that rare.

Not yet, have several irons in the fire, so am just doing a bit at a time, have two jeeps now with buying the generator, and am pretty much done with the 49 rolling chassis, couple of brake lines and re-welding the cross tube and boxing a bit ahead of the tube. This chassis was mounted with a snow plow, and the frame from the trans cross member forward was broken -
The 46, that came with the generator is amazingly from the tub down, in the main complete with all the little tid bits. Clamps, brackets, drive shaft dirt plugs, all the stuff one has a to rustle up, just to be sort of true to the genre.
Result is I am now looking at two mistresses.
To add to the misery and fun, is that I have a love affair with small diesels and have three isuzu 4 cylinder diesels. I after taking measurements,
believe the Isuzu would fit in rather nicely, not a massive amount of hacking. I detest the wiring issues, and the engines are all one wire start.
Your thoughts welcome, I am leaning in the direction of the L134 in the 46, have a 46 tub with gauges and all that, so the package with floor panels, and paint would be close to stock. Have a bunch of 46 parts from the fire of my barn, and etc. etc.
As to the 49, when I finish welding the frame, and clutch specialist and a machine shop have said they would deal with the flywheel and clutch
so I might be able to use the 1946 bell housing, and the 46, had a F134 engine laying in the engine compartment, so that bell housing is availble as well.
As I noted in the beginning of this little adventure, I grew up with jeeps, MB's on the ranch in South Dakota, running fence for mile after mile.
Bunk houses, or with an old military cot because of snakes. A jeep at my home at the coast. Just wanted to fix one up and putter around,
maybe move home etc. Now, two who need attention, and one cannot just slap something together, these old workhorses deserve proper
repairs and life again. LT