Building Confidence

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
Your rebuild progress in extremely enlightening and detailed. You are well beyond my aspirations for vehicle improvements. I hope you don't mind entertaining a few less intensive restoration questions.

- Prior to applying the Xion Lab treatment, did you wire brush or grind off as much surface rust as "easily" possible? (PS - I do like the look of the "Lady in red")
- Did you consider and rule out using POR15 and/or Gravitex for the under carriage?
- Where did you source your floor pans from? Satisfied with them?
- Where did you source your 3-point seat-belts from? Satisfied with them?

I'll continue to follow your resto/build with interest.

Cheers,

Dave

PS - As I'm typing this UPS delivered my first resto part for my J300. Suspense... I'll start a thread, hopefully tomorrow, on my journey with the J300. Same bat channel- different bat time, er- different bat thread. (Not to be confused with BaT $$$)
Hey Dave

Will attempt to answer as completely as I can " Recall " on your questions. This was my first ever vehicle rebuild project ( age 67 ) and haven't done a lot of veh. mech works since I was in my 20's, so a lot of what I have done ( or procedures followed ) had to do with lots of reading and research on products available and techniques/tactics described on this and other related forums. That said...my first issue involved " chasing the rust and deciding on available replacement panels rather than trying to individually cut, form, and patch areas in need - except for smaller, hidden and less structural needed spots. I went with the usual outlets, Willys America ( very slow shipping ) to Walcks and Kaiser ( both had good selection and fast shipping ). As stated in this forum by many, replacement panels are not exact, and require a fair amount of " adjustment " to make do, but, given time and thot, even I ( definitely not a body and fender man or great at detail ) got it done.

In regards to the Xion Lab rust convertor, It was just a whim to go with it instead of the POR 15. I felt that it had an easier application process detailed ie: basic removal of any flaking rust, light brushing and wipe down of surface rust areas, and could be applied to a wet surface. I went over the frame, interior and exterior body areas with a drill wire and hand brush, air hose, and then pressure washed the frame ( hand wipe interior/exterior body panels ). Applied the Xion Lab with brush ( and made some long wire handled paint " daubers " from cut down roller brushes ) to run down boxed in area's of frame and body cavities. Surfaces were still damp, and the convertor went on well, great coverage, and 6 months later, work on coated areas has me convinced that Xion Lab coverage is 110% great stuff. Area's that I had to come back to ( switching from orig motor to the V-6 ) for welding in motor mounts etc. requires grinding off the Xion Lab coating to get to bare metal, and you really need to grind it off to get it off! Only complaint is the red has a tendency to show thru any other painted surface ( black undercoating ). You will see over time where you undercoated a little lightly. As I finish on the frame and get ready for a " final reset " of the body to the frame, I will re-coat another layer of undercoat paint...just because of the knicks and dings I put in the original black undercoat.

IMG_7407.JPG

Just FYI, I did purchase and have used the POR 15 Seam Sealer ( went over my weld joints on floor-pan and other points ) and am pleased with the results. Think I have a pretty air-tight ( well, hopefully watertight ) pan area.

I read the forum articles on the seat belt install, and followed those leads. THINK I got the retractable 3Pt system from Walcks or Kaiser, can't find my PO for them, but think they are listed on those sites. Fairly easy install, and I bolted them down to hardpoints that I made and am very happy with.
IMG_7355.JPG

One thing I noticed ( and it caused some original heartburn ) is that everyone has ( and is more then entitled to ) their personal thot and opinions on the " best way to go". But when I was trying to determine " my way ", it was head-scratching to say the least on which way I should go on addressing a specific issue. Overall, there's a lot of help on these forums, but final decision is yours!

It's fun and interesting, and suprising how much you choose to " spend " to do it right. I have no issue spending less on the cosmetic decisions, but mechanically and structurally, I have spent the $$.

Have fun, take lots of pics, and post often, everyone seems to enjoy watching others build one up!
 

rocket

Well Oiled
Sep 3, 2015
1,717
Sierra Mtns
First Name
Rodney
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1963
Hey Doug. I don't know how I missed your Build Thread. But I just caught up with it today. Good Job!!. I have a 63 Wagon that I "Resto-Modded" and I'm now working on a 56 CJ5 Both rigs have, or are getting Ford 302 V8's. Keep up the Good Work.
Rodney
 
Last edited:

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
Hey Doug. I don't know how I missed your Build Thread. But I just caught up with it today. Good Job!!. I have a 63 Wagon that I "Resto-Modded" and I'm now working on a 56 CJ5 Both rigs have, or are getting Ford 302 V8's. Keep up the Good Work.
Rodney
Thanks, it's been a great " retiree "project, really wish I had started it much sooner - guess I was too busy with family, job, and running around in the hills, living the good life hunting, fishing, hiking and general mopery! Hope to make a Sierra circuit with it, that country looks absolutely beautiful, and that's an opinion from someone who has the great southern Oregon Cascades in the backyard!
 

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
So my long block V-6 order arrived 3-8-21, happy as a lark with it, ( purch thru the Auto-Wrecking yard that I had purchased the defunct used V-6
- they gave me refund and used old block as the core-trade-in, so was happy with them - just added another month to my wait ). Motor was from S&J rebuilders - Spokane, Wa and looks great! Came with complete gasket and seal kit, 5 qts of LUCAS break in Oil, warranty, ready for rebuild! Of course a few minor glitches cropped right up- the needed oil pump pick-up tube has a back-date supply - as much as 3 wks plus with some suppliers - but local parts house I use had one in Whhse in north part of state, should be available by late Mon or Tues. I cleaned, and taped off engine and painted, then put flywheel on crankshaft, but something not right - one seal in the kit identified as " rear oil seal " and after looking at several schematics and running a parts order check, finally figured out that it needs a " housing " that the seal sits in, goes over the rear collar of the crankshaft, and bolts into the crankcase, - plus the back two bolts ( 1 ea side ) of the oil pan bolt into this oil seal housing - which did not come with the long-block. It is not the rear " MAIN SEAL", but a secondary seal around the crankshaft collar, not shown on any schematic's that I looked at, finally found it referenced as a 1 pc unit ( housing with inserted seal ) in the GM Service manual. I called all around plus on-line search for the unit ( rear oil seal housing ) - no success - apparently not a listed replacement part???? I have sent an inquiry to S&J to see if they have one available, and will check the local Dealer parts dept. next week - not bald yet but working on IT!

IMG_7427.JPG New Long Block V-6.JPG

IMG_7436.JPG IMG_7435.JPG

4.3L 6-135 Important: Always use a NEW crankshaft rear oil seal housing gasket when installing the crankshaft rear oil seal housing. 2. Install the NEW crankshaft rear oil seal housing gasket. 3. Install the crankshaft rear oil seal housing onto the crankshaft rear oil seal housing retainer stud. 4. Install the crankshaft rear oil seal housing nut and bolts. Tighten Tighten the crankshaft rear oil seal housing nut and bolts to 12 N•m (106 lb in).

IMG_7437.JPG

So if anyone has a spare " rear oil seal housing ", ( Leave it to me and murphy to find the one part that doesn't exist in the replacement parts category! )

IMG_7350.JPG

BUT _ I do have Elvira's company!
 

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
Was there not one on the block you traded in?
Probably was, but not a piece that I took off to keep ( as I did the valve covers, pan, access brackets etc ). I have an email into S&J asking them about providing the part. Spent several hrs on-line looking for the specific part, finally identified ( the only listing ) GM part#, which most sites said was not compatible with my yr motor ( 95 ). Since it is the only part identified for the motor, finally found one site( pitstopusa ) which identified the part as compatible to all year SBC's. Will get one ordered up ( another month wait??? ) and see what happens.
 

TurbofireV8

Sharpest Tool
Jun 28, 2013
304
Port Orange,FL
First Name
Paul
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1949
  2. 1952
  3. 1961
All Chevrolet 4.3L V6s, 5.0L V8s, and 5.7L V8s from 1986 to 2002 I believe (excluding the LT1 5.7L V8 in the Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, Impala, and Caprice 9C1 cop cars from the mid '90s, with the front distributors) should use the same rear main seal retainer. You should be able to get them used for $25 or less on ebay and the like. I'm pretty sure I've seen them brand new with all gaskets/seals and studs for under $50 actually.
 
Last edited:

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
All Chevrolet 4.3L V6s, 5.0L V8s, and 5.7L V8s from 1986 to 2002 I believe (excluding the LT1 5.7L V8 in the Corvette, Camaro, Firebird, Impala, and Caprice 9C1 cop cars from the mid '90s, with the front distributors) should use the same rear main seal retainer. You should be able to get them used for $25 or less on ebay and the like. I'm pretty sure I've seen them brand new with all gaskets/seals and studs for under $50 actually.
Thanks Paul, after several hrs worth of " on-line research ", I found enuf info to determine that the " rear oil seal housing/retainer/casing " is indeed uniform to all the SBC motors, ( altho many parts distributor sites listed them as "not compatible to your engine ), and did find several on EBay at costs you mention. Many of the parts distributor sites only list under GM Parts #14088556 ( revised from 14088557 revised from - well, there were several older #'s listed ), not by a termed vernacular ( rear oil main seal housing ) altho many times only the "O" ring seal was shown ( not with the housing). Anyway, I feel confidant now that I can order up the full retainer with seal and know that it is the part that will work. While I still wonder why the " long block " didn't have this seal/retainer as a part of the rebuild, I can only chuckle and acknowledge if there was any "issue" that would crop up with this part of my rebuild, It would probably cause more than a little frustration for me :) :)!
 

TurbofireV8

Sharpest Tool
Jun 28, 2013
304
Port Orange,FL
First Name
Paul
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1949
  2. 1952
  3. 1961
Thanks Paul, after several hrs worth of " on-line research ", I found enuf info to determine that the " rear oil seal housing/retainer/casing " is indeed uniform to all the SBC motors, ( altho many parts distributor sites listed them as "not compatible to your engine ), and did find several on EBay at costs you mention. Many of the parts distributor sites only list under GM Parts #14088556 ( revised from 14088557 revised from - well, there were several older #'s listed ), not by a termed vernacular ( rear oil main seal housing ) altho many times only the "O" ring seal was shown ( not with the housing). Anyway, I feel confidant now that I can order up the full retainer with seal and know that it is the part that will work. While I still wonder why the " long block " didn't have this seal/retainer as a part of the rebuild, I can only chuckle and acknowledge if there was any "issue" that would crop up with this part of my rebuild, It would probably cause more than a little frustration for me :) :)!
I agree, I would have thought an assembled long block would include that part as well, but as long as you know what you're looking for now it shouldn't be an issue for you, just a little more money to spend ;)
 

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
Murphy helped me prime the engine block.

After getting the oil pump pickup tube and installing the pump, I moved on to the required " oil priming the block ". There is a very expensive tool ( not rented at the parts store ) which can be purchased to accomplish this. There is also the " home shop method " of using a long bladed screwdriver ( cut off to fit in a drill ), as many of you already know. I opted to use an old 1/2"dia long ratchet extension, ground down on the end to form the needed " male " fitting. Simple grind, check, little more grind, check fit, VIOLA, attach to my drill with the ratchet adaptor and start the spin. The oil drive shaft has a lot of play, so it becomes difficult to keep the slot mated while fast spinning. Some bouncing around occurred. Tried a heavy 5/8" plastic tubing to sleeve the homemade drive shaft, but noted that it would start to spin and show grind marks where it went down thru the block port. Didn't want that residue in the pan. Try something else. I had a short length of black metal ( gasline ) pipe, with the plastic thread protectors which made a perfect " housing to drop down thru the block port and slip over the oil pump driveshaft and my " drive bar " . It was heavy and tight enuf that it would not spin, kept the drivebars aligned and intact during the higher RPM's of the priming process. Worked great ( plastic thread protector on pipe were checked for tight fit, and there was clearance on the block " port " to drop it thu/ retract it without fear of " loosing any parts " into the pan ).

So then I moved on to the intake manifold, carb, distributor dry fit/placement. ( As a reminder, this is a V-6 conversion from TBI to carb ) Edebrock 2111 manifold, Summit 500 CFM carb, air cleaner, and HEI Distributor. Big carb and distrib housing to fit on the smaller tabletop - and the air cleaner won't " sit"! While I had a few choice words and spent some time kicking things ( wife and dog excluded - but tempted! ) Long story shortened to exclude all the whining I did, the problem is solved with a simple ( and power beneficial ) 1" or 2" carb riser.

IMG_7472.JPG



HOWEVER, no way could I get the distributor to sit down to the manifold surface ( with manifold removed, and I could see down thru the block past the risers, the tapered bell housing of the distributor shaft was starting to " seat" onto the oil pump driveline, but the bar and slot were not mating! )

IMG_7471.JPG

Nomenclature for the oil pump driveshaft said .483 dia. The ID of the distributor shaft " bell " showed that or slightly less ( cheap HF digital calipers )! I tried several hundred times to align, spin, light downward pressure, NO GO. Have I mentioned yet that Murphy enjoys my company??? Again long story, but several days attempting to confer with Summit about compatible parts and manufacture tolerances. Finally drained the break-in oil, dropped the pan ( don't have a lift, so was a creeper on the floor project - did I mention how old I am getting? ) drop the oil pump/driveshaft, and physically attempt to mate it to the distributor shaft- NO GO! Detailed look shows some minor burring on the oil driveshaft at the slot, and there is quick realization that the burrs were probably caused during my first " loose spins " of the shaft while attempting to oil prime to block. Quick polishing of the exterior diameter and inside wall corners of the shaft slot, and it mates beautyfully with the distributor. When I get home from the hospital tomorrow, I will get it put all back together. ( I'm not sure, I must have fallen and concussed - at least that is what the wife tells me - with a knowing smile. The pup won't come around me now and some things look tossed about in the shop??? - probably Murphy's doing!):):);)

This info presented in an effort to keep some other poor sop from doing something that would piss off his wife!


Fortunately, there's always Elvira!

IMG_7345.JPG
 
Last edited:

TurbofireV8

Sharpest Tool
Jun 28, 2013
304
Port Orange,FL
First Name
Paul
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1949
  2. 1952
  3. 1961
Another old trick, if you have to do this again ever, is get an old distributor (if you don't already have one) and strip it down to just the inner shaft and bottom gear. Grind the teeth off the gear so it is smooth on the outside, just leaving the part of it that slots down over the oil pump drive, and use a drill to spin it. That way it is locked in around the pump shaft and can't jump out. Though it does require a larger diameter drill chuck. ;)
 

indian301

Sharpest Tool
Feb 28, 2017
305
Arizona
First Name
David
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
  1. 1948
I hate to tell you this, but you only primed the the oil pump and crankshaft. On Chevy engines you have to use an old distributor with the teeth ground off,or a special priming tool that takes the place of the distributor. The lifters and rockers arms are pressurized only when the distributor is in place.
 

Hoffy1039

Bigger Hammer
Jan 31, 2020
145
Roseburg, Oregon
First Name
Doug
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1959
I hate to tell you this, but you only primed the the oil pump and crankshaft. On Chevy engines you have to use an old distributor with the teeth ground off,or a special priming tool that takes the place of the distributor. The lifters and rockers arms are pressurized only when the distributor is in place.
Probably why the primer tool costs so much! I noticed a little spurt thru one lifter on my first spin attempt. Then I could only get pressure to 35Lbs, no more oil up thru lifters. I know that the Builder ( S&J ) out of Spokane, Wa. provides documentation that they did a full run-up test ( by machine, not firing ), so thinking that was why I saw the oil spurt thru the lifter on first spin- that they had oil primed the block first.
 
Top