Thoughts on a 68-year-old transmission

dekeeb

dekeeb

Sharpest Tool
Aug 24, 2013
244
Minnesota
First Name
Kris
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
  1. 1955
While working on my 1955 pickup today, I decided to peek under the trasmission tower to see what I could see. I recently got the engine running for extended periods and was able to run it through all its gears without much difficulty, and it did what it was supposed to do albeit while up on stands. I suspect the transmission is all original as the casting date on the case read Feb 1955, and the assembly date on the top of the case read March 25, 1955. The photos below give you an idea on the general condition of the gear sets, my question is this: Do I go ahead and rebuild, or just leave well enough alone? I’m stripping the truck ahead of frame work, and the transmission and transfer case leak like they’re 68 years old. If the odometer on my truck is accurate to when it was parked, there are just over 40,000 miles on the old boy. I’ve included a few photos to let you register your opinions. If I do undertake rebuilds, it’s beyond my comfort level to do myself so a shop would be going the work.
 

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I'm very leary of "shops" doing these antiques. They probably know less about these things than you'd learn from the manual on your first try. In a sense, we, the hobbyists, are the experts on these now. Although some special tools are required, if you have a basic knowledge and unsterstanding of mechanics and can follow the manual, there's a pretty good chance you can do it yourself with some guidance from the forum here. But, before I go too far, I've ony done a few (seven?) T84's and a T98, but no T90's yet (that's coming soon though). I've done more Spicer transfer cases than I care to admit though, but not too recently, so you would have to rely on others here for recent experiences, especially with the T90. Just stay away from Chinese bearings and gears though, no matter who does the work.
 
dekeeb said:
Do I go ahead and rebuild, or just leave well enough alone?
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First I need to say that there are numerous people here that know more about trannies than me, but having said that I have rebuilt two T90s, so not a complete noob.

To me it looks like your brass synchronizers are completely worn out and at least one dog is completely gone (as in not there).

What little I see of your gears look OK to me, but there is plenty that is not visible.

At the least it needs a small parts kit. I would inspect the inside of the cluster gear (bottom gear set) and make sure it isn’t scarred up due to metal from the missing dog(s).

There are a few YouTube videos that will walk you through a proper inspection so you know what you have and how to rebuild as well.
 
ndnile said:
Look at the videos out there and see if you’re still intimidated to tackle this.

Loading…

m.youtube.com

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I watched the video, and it does seem rather straight forward but I got a sudden diarrhea attack when he started with the needle bearings. I think its doable, but I know my lack of patience would undermine any satisfaction of I may get from doing it myself.
 
JABJEEP said:
I'm very leary of "shops" doing these antiques. They probably know less about these things than you'd learn from the manual on your first try. In a sense, we, the hobbyists, are the experts on these now. Although some special tools are required, if you have a basic knowledge and unsterstanding of mechanics and can follow the manual, there's a pretty good chance you can do it yourself with some guidance from the forum here. But, before I go too far, I've ony done a few (seven?) T84's and a T98, but no T90's yet (that's coming soon though). I've done more Spicer transfer cases than I care to admit though, but not too recently, so you would have to rely on others here for recent experiences, especially with the T90. Just stay away from Chinese bearings and gears though, no matter who does the work.
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I've got a couple buddies of mine who are pretty sharp when it comes to anything mechanical....one is a retired mechanic/manager who worked for a major power company. I'd pick their brains and get a recommendation from them before just dropping off at any old place. You are absolutely correct about the usefulness of folks in this forum. I just know my mental hygiene would be greatly served by hiring out this part of my project.
 
dekeeb said:
I watched the video, and it does seem rather straight forward but I got a sudden diarrhea attack when he started with the needle bearings. I think its doable, but I know my lack of patience would undermine any satisfaction of I may get from doing it myself.
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Somebody should tell that guy that the T90 is a Warner transmission, not a Borg Warner, that is a clutch. And the Spicer is the transfer case only, also called Dana. and Brown Lipe ( the gear shop that Spicer bought).. You get more respect if you know what you have.
diggerG
 
diggerG said:
Somebody should tell that guy that the T90 is a Warner transmission, not a Borg Warner, that is a clutch. And the Spicer is the transfer case only, also called Dana. and Brown Lipe ( the gear shop that Spicer bought).. You get more respect if you know what you have.
diggerG
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Deep breaths Greg, deep slow breaths.
 
Rebuilding a T90 is really pretty easy. You'll gain a lot of confidence doing it yourself and there are lots of folks and threads here that will help.
One thing you WILL need though is a set of lock ring (parallel jaw) pliers.

www.ebay.com

Proto J251G Proto 10-9/16" Lock Ring Parallel Jaw Pliers | eBay

Proto J251G Proto 10-9/16" Lock Ring Parallel Jaw Pliers.
www.ebay.com
 
Tralehead said:
Rebuilding a T90 is really pretty easy. You'll gain a lot of confidence doing it yourself and there are lots of folks and threads here that will help.
One thing you WILL need though is a set of lock ring (parallel jaw) pliers.

www.ebay.com

Proto J251G Proto 10-9/16" Lock Ring Parallel Jaw Pliers | eBay

Proto J251G Proto 10-9/16" Lock Ring Parallel Jaw Pliers.
www.ebay.com
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My eyes are bleeding from watching so many videos about the T-90, but the more I do watch it does appear rather straight forward. I've been rooting around more inside the case of my transmission and it looks like I've got some chipped teeth in the lower gearset that may need replacing. In order to keep prices under control I may decide to tackle it myself considering the transfer case in in need of a rebuild as well. Is the transfer case on a par with the transmission as far as it's rebuild.
 
dekeeb said:
Is the transfer case on a par with the transmission as far as it's rebuild.
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Yes, very much so. There's one frustrating part, removing the shifters, that when you get it right it just falls apart, but until then, you just want to whack it! No need! It just falls apart when the shift rods are in the correct position. In addition to the special pliers you'll want a dial indicator and base. Prices have dropped so much for the cheap ones that there's no need to worry about the expense. You'll make it up many times over, or borrow one. There are more model 18 transfercases out there than T-90's, so there's even more videos. There's even one video where a grandpa has his elementry school student grandkids rebuild it. I'll have to find it and post it here. He made one omission, I don't recall what, but taken with other videos it's a good source.
I found the link on the g503 site where I first heard about it;
 
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jjeffries said:
Did you drive the truck yet to determine how well the transmission in its current condition works?

John
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I ran it through gears while up on stands and was able to make it through all the gears, but it wasn't a smooth operation by any means. It reminds me of our 74 Gremlin which was kept working with my mother's bobby pins jammed in to keep the shift linkage aligned. Turns out, bobby pins are not a long term solution, imagine that.
 
dekeeb said:
I watched the video, and it does seem rather straight forward but I got a sudden diarrhea attack when he started with the needle bearings. I think its doable, but I know my lack of patience would undermine any satisfaction of I may get from doing it myself.
Click to expand...
I didn’t watch his video but the needle bearings are easy peasy. You just need to know what the procedure is.
diggerG
 
So coincidentally I am a guy who’d never touched a transmission but now can say I’ve done one, the T90 in my ‘57 pickup.

It would be easy to say “If I can do it anyone can”, but that does need some qualifiers like, maybe, any who is used to working on cars/trucks, has a decent grasp of how things should feel, how to use tools etc.

I found the Rick Stivers series of videos on YT the best basis, but I also got some key stuff from the YT T90 video by Metalshaper (BrianH). Yes, I watched them over and over, but at some point you just jump in the pool by taking the thing apart. The T90 truly is very simple in theory and practice. It’s also built from stout parts so you’re not going to break anything unless you get very caveman.

I bought two pairs of flat face snap ring pliers from Amazon, one Lisle/USA, the other - larger - no name Chinese. Each $13; the Chinese pair were more useful simply due to being bigger. I bought the blue assembly goo grease, good stuff. I also have a solvent parts washer which made things nicer. I bought my overhaul kit from Novak in Utah; they or Advanced Adapters sell the quality parts you’ll want. I used Stalube 80/90 GL4 oil. Please take a look at my thread (“From Tom in Michigan to John in Connecticut”) if interested.

Last point: make sure your frame of reference as to what a good transmission feels like is realistic. These things are not Honda Civic or even MGB/TR6 like, they’re heavy old brutes with no synchro on first.

Best wishes, John
 
jjeffriessaid it right! II also had never rebuilt a tranny. Reviewed a lot of the t90 rebuild utube sites, which make the t90 rebuild look totally doable, but I still let my heebie-jeebies tell me that farming it out would save me in the long run ( having it " done right" ). Took it to a local jeeper specific shop , (newer accessory bolt on specialists ). Long story short - they totally screwed it up and I paid a big dollar cost!
I then rebuilt . Got the basic " rebuild kit and "corrected the errors, ( original included getting new bottom cluster gear. I even tore it back down a couple times and reset just to get comfortable with the aspects that I did things right!
Caution- redo the top plate ( shifter ) also - the springs and such are worn, replace
them, ask me how I know!!!
 
OK fellers, I've considered all your opinions and spoke to my buddies on this end and you've all given he the courage to tackle this project "in house". If anyone notices a blue haze on the horizon, you'll know I'm elbow deep into the project and things aren't going well. I'll update down the road when I get it pulled and on the bench. Thanks to all.
 
dekeeb said:
OK fellers, I've considered all your opinions and spoke to my buddies on this end and you've all given he the courage to tackle this project "in house". If anyone notices a blue haze on the horizon, you'll know I'm elbow deep into the project and things aren't going well. I'll update down the road when I get it pulled and on the bench. Thanks to all.
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You will thank yourself in the end. GOOD mechanics for our old rigs are few and far between. Just getting anyone to work on them is a challenge for many. The only challenge is getting the countershaft in without displacing the rollers and/or thrust washers. The best tip is to use a dummy shaft that is just short enough to fit into the case. As you drive the real one through it will push the dummy out and keep everything in place!
 
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