Willys wagon suspension lift options???

[rocket]

Like I said before. My Wagon has spring over with long Olds Bravada/ S10 Blazer rear springs. They don't have alot of leaves, and ride nice. I did use the Bravada sway bar and Rover end links. With a slightly built 4 BBL Ford 302 and a 5 speed manual I have never had a handling issue, or axle wrap problems. Articulation does seem a bit limited unless the sway bars front and rear are disconected for more extream off road use. .

 

[TurbofireV8]

I'm glad to see more people supporting spring over conversions. I thought it was just me that found them acceptable. Certainly not going to out corner a 911, but the ones I have had/driven seemed stable enough to me. That said, I've been driving old 4X4's for 47 years and have learned to live with their quirks. Adding an anti-wrap strut to the rear axle and converting to GM steering with a dropped pitman arm should take care of most of your concerns. I think it is the perfect amount of lift for a wagon or pickup.

Thanks, Joe, that was really the kind of answer I was looking for. I've driven some old 4X4s with leaves all around (as well as several old 2WD sprung over trucks) and never had an issue with their handling characteristics stock, so that would be fine. To be clear, I'm not looking for sports car corner carving capabilities here, I'm more then happy to drive a old 4WD truck that handles like one, I just didn't want to make it handle considerably worse by doing a spring over. I do realize that this is the hardest part with my question; however, as everyone's opinion as to what is good or bad ride quality differs considerably. Riding and handling largely close to it did stock with a spring over is acceptable to me.

By contrast, I've also driven a bunch of 60's/70's full-size, four corner coil sprung cars without rear sway bars that literally feel like they are leaning over and scraping the door handles in a turn. As long as a Willys isn't like that with a spring over, I'll be more then happy with it. And I agree Joe, it is the perfect amount of lift for a Willys wagon in my book as well. Thanks.

Like I said before. My Wagon has spring over with long Olds Bravada/ S10 Blazer rear springs. They don't have alot of leaves, and ride nice. I did use the Bravada sway bar and Rover end links. With a slightly built 4 BBL Ford 302 and a 5 speed manual I have never had a handling issue, or axle wrap problems. Articulation does seem a bit limited unless the sway bars front and rear are disconected for more extream off road use.

Nice setup, Rodney. I especially like the sway bar idea too, as that was something I was also considering. Just not sure it would be worth having to disconnect it before off-roading, as you mentioned, though everything is a trade off I guess.

I wouldn't mind going with longer springs out back but I don't really want to go with coils up front if I can help it (and I'm not willing to lengthen the front frame rails as I previously said). That would mean riding on short, stiffer Willys front leaves and longer, probably softer (though wider) leaves out back. Probably wouldn't be a good option. Plus I'd still have to spring it over anyway and with springs of a potentially softer spring rate (though longer), which would do little to aid in stopping possible axle wrap issues for me I would think. I actually wonder if your shock mounting configuration doesn't help to (either inadvertently or not) stop axle wrap in your case too.

 

[rocket]

Thanks, Joe, that was really the kind of answer I was looking for. I've driven some old 4X4s with leaves all around (as well as several old 2WD sprung over trucks) and never had an issue with their handling characteristics stock, so that would be fine. To be clear, I'm not looking for sports car corner carving capabilities here, I'm more then happy to drive a old 4WD truck that handles like one, I just didn't want to make it handle considerably worse by doing a spring over. I do realize that this is the hardest part with my question; however, as everyone's opinion as to what is good or bad ride quality differs considerably. Riding and handling largely close to it did stock with a spring over is acceptable to me.

By contrast, I've also driven a bunch of 60's/70's full-size. four corner sprung cars without rear sway bars that literally feel like they are leaning over and scraping the door handles in a turn. As long as a Willys isn't like that with a spring over, I'll be more then happy with it. And I agree Joe, it is the perfect amount of lift for a Willys wagon in my book as well. Thanks.



Nice setup, Rodney. I especially like the sway bar idea too, as that was something I was also considering. Just not sure it would be worth having to disconnect it before off-roading, as you mentioned, though everything is a trade off I guess.

I wouldn't mind going with longer springs out back but I don't really want to go with coils up front if I can help it (and I'm not willing to lengthen the front frame rails as I previously said). That would mean riding on short, stiffer Willys front leaves and longer, probably softer (though wider) leaves out back. Probably wouldn't be a good option. Plus I'd still have to spring it over anyway and with springs of a potentially softer spring rate (though longer), which would do little to aid in stopping possible axle wrap issues for me I would think. I actually wonder if your shock mounting configuration doesn't help to (either inadvertently or not) stop axle wrap in your case too.

At the Run for the Hills rally I had no issues with the trails we went on. Even with the sway bars hooked up, the wagon went everywhere that everyone else went no worries. In some really rough stuff I have ended up with one front, and one rear wheel in the air. Rubicon Express and many other 4x4 Parts store offer Quick Disconect sway bar end links. Just pull a pin and get ready to aticulate.

 

[TurbofireV8]

At the Run for the Hills rally I had no issues with the trails we went on. Even with the sway bars hooked up, the wagon went everywhere that everyone else went no worries. In some really rough stuff I have ended up with one front, and one rear wheel in the air. Rubicon Express and many other 4x4 Parts store offer Quick Disconect sway bar end links. Just pull a pin and get ready to aticulate.

Good to know. I had heard about the quick disconnect links before too but I hadn't looked into it yet. I saw them on the front/through the frame bar of a more modern Jeep somewhere as I recall, but wasn't sure if it was something that was heavily model specific for instance, though anything can be modified I suppose.

I meant to ask, is that flat bar bolted across the rear of your frame in those pictures an add on trailer hitch?

 

[Duckbill59]

I like the way member TheATeam lifted his truck. I got a lot of ideas about building my truck from his postings.

 

[TurbofireV8]

I like the way member TheATeam lifted his truck. I got a lot of ideas about building my truck from his postings.

That was actually what I was considering at first (had never seen it actually done before though), but I too figured 3" would be the max for that and I wanted a full 5".

 

[Stakebed]

@TheATeam 's truck looks awesome!

 

[rocket]

Good to know. I had heard about the quick disconnect links before too but I hadn't looked into it yet. I saw them on the front/through the frame bar of a more modern Jeep somewhere as I recall, but wasn't sure if it was something that was heavily model specific for instance, though anything can be modified I suppose.

I meant to ask, is that flat bar bolted across the rear of your frame in those pictures an add on trailer hitch?

No, it was just taking measurements. and figureing gas tank mounting.

 

[TurbofireV8]

No, it was just taking measurements. and figureing gas tank mounting.

Oh, that makes more sense. I knew that wasn't like the hitch you had now, but thought it might have been an old add on. I've seen/noticed a bunch of odd add on hitch set ups on Willys over the years. Some frighteningly rinky dink too.

 

[Lookout Ranch]

Thanks for the input Andrew and Rodney. A spring over would certainly be easier/cheaper for me. I've also worked on so many stock spring over axles over the years, Andrew, that I've been wondering why it couldn't work. Like you say, Rodney, it seems to have a lot to do with the spring rate, but as I have brand new (literally no miles driven on them) repo stock springs, they are far from worn out. I just don't know if the spring rate stock will be enough to prevent axle wrap issues. Though I also have several sets of old leaf springs from Willys just laying around too, so I could possibly play around with adding an extra leaf if stability, axle wrap is an issue with a spring over. I just don't want to cause the ride quality to suffer too greatly in the process of course.

Though I know another contributing factor with axle wrap is horsepower and torque output of the drivetrain too, as well as lower axle ratios. I'll be running a Chevy inline 6cyl that was mildly built, so not an overly high horsepower/torque engine overall (not V8 level power certainly), though easily more then the stock Willys 226 engine would have been. The axle ratio is also the stock 4.27:1, pretty low though, so neither of these factors will help issues when it comes to possible axle wrap. By the way, Andrew, I'm not worried about the steering as I'm going to do a power steering box conversion with crossover steering at the same time. So I won't be using the original short Willys' draglink (or really much else of the stock system).

The benefit to a spring over (in addition to ground/wheel clearance) is better articulation, or so I've read, though for a wagon that is going to see dirt roads and highway miles more then off-road and trail rides, this isn't my number one concern. I just don't want something that will handle horribly on pavement as a trade off for the extra lift/off-roading capability. If a spring under is more stable in this regard, and can be achieved without making ride quality substantially worst (stiffer spring rates), then it is the better option. However, if a spring over will still allow for stable handling (at least as stable as it is stock) on road and in traffic (changing lanes, making turns), then it would be a viable option too in my opinion. Anyone with a spring over (especially a stock Willys axle/spring set up) care to comment on that possibility?

Edit:
To your point, Andrew, though a bad example perhaps due to it being a heavy duty truck, with equally heavy duty (stiff) springs, my father's '51 Chevy cab over is a spring over both front (I-beam) and rear.

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That’s a very cool COE!