Sorry to have introduced this rat hole. It wasn’t Kevin and I can’t find the post. The picture/video was taken from the front of the rig and the stated cause was an electrical issue catching the roofing material he used for sound deadening on fire. Since I can’t find it, ignore me.
I know that, you misunderstood what I was saying.
Less expensive than KilMat? Not really. Your roofing material was 160 a roll: 7'x36"(I think that was the cheapest I saw it for) plus it's half the thickness of the 80 mil deadener products.
What is 160 a roll ? you mean $160.00 dollars ?
Excellent tips. looking to do my '59 one of these days, then I might be able to hear what the passengers are screaming..lol Question is, how well does this deaden the noise? These are not quite rigs by any stretch of the imagination. Between that and the heat from the engine~Basically it comes down to what you're trying to do; so what are you trying to do?
Once again, let's look at vehicular insulating materials:
Dyanmat (and all the other butyl products) is a sound deadener. This means when it's properly applied it will absorb the micro-vibrations in the metal that amplify sound. Think of it as a damper... It's a great underlayment to what ever else you use to insulate. My favorites these days are KilMat and Siless, both around 1.60 a sq. ft. (compare to the roofing crap mentioned above at 7 bucks!) and you can buy them in small packages thus eliminating waste. (compared to the roofing at a min. 7' roll). Also, could not find how thick the roofing stuff is, I would doubt it's the 80mil thickness of the automotive product.
Next you would have sound absorbers. My favorite is 3M's Thinsulate (yes, same stuff in your jacket) . It comes in two thicknesses for automotive use; 1" and 2". Obviously, the thicker the better. Not only does it do a good job at absorbing sound, it also has great thermal insulating properties. Something to think about when the sun is beating down or there's snow on your roof. It attaches fast and permanently with 3M's spray 90 adhesive. And it's totally hydrophobic, so condensation won't be absorbed like it can be in carpet. There are other materials like sheep's wool and recycled denim if you're going for a "green" feel. They work well from what I hear...
Then there are sound barriers, the best being lead but it's expensive and really heavy. The stuff I prefer is called Mass Loaded Vinyl or MLV. It has a density similar to lead but less expensive and easier to work with. But, both of these materials need to be decoupled from the metal, and you would use a Closed Cell Foam, or CCF, for that. If you don't, then the sound just transfers from the metal (firewall) to the material and into your environment. MLV makes a great firewall sound barrier, but it needs to cover it completely to be very effective, which means cutting to fit and taping all of the seams. You can buy it with a layer of CCF pre-bonded to one side to make th installation easier. And again, goes up permanently with 3M 90. Though I wouldn't bother with it on your roof.
Last but not least are the hybrids that include Noico's "Red" (a CCF material) and Lizard Skin, a spray-able coating. The first is an interesting product, I have some but haven't used it yet. It's a type of CCF that claims to be both a deadener and absorber and thermal barrier. OK.... but is it good at all 3? Dunno.
Lizard Skin gets mixed reviews. Some folks are all in and will tell you it's better than sex, but I've paid less for good sex; Lizard Skin ain't cheap! I would like to try it myself if I had the underside and the interior of my Wagon body sandblasted, surface prep is key for that stuff and it needs to be applied to as much surface as possible for max efficiency. Yer on yer own...
FWIW, in my wagon I'm using KilMat where ever I can stick it on (and yes, it sticks permanently to clean surfaces, including the inside of your roof, but get and use a ROLLER!) and then Thinsulate over that. I'm using MLV on the floors and I'll try the Noico Red on the inside of the firewall and underside of the cowl. And when you tap the body panels, you get a nice dull thud.
As far as home materials are concerened, sure you can cheap out and use roofing material, carpet, wood, pink fiberglass, whatever... It WILL do something! And it's better than nothing. But it might just soak up some water and get smelly or moldy or ? Then getting that sex will probaly be off the table after the first ride.
My moto is "buy once, cry once". Go for the high priced call girl or the skank at the stop sign; your choice
Depends on how much you use! AND how well it's applied!! The butyl deadener MUST be rolled down, use a rubber roller, a smooth wood block, your hand and a rag, whatever it takes. And the metal you put it on must be smooth, scrape off all the loose crustys, sand, treat with metal prep (ospho) and paint. Let the paint cure for about a week, then put the butyl on.
Awesome advice, I'm going to get on this!
I remember that
You're right, any large flat area of sheet metal is prone to vibration. But that doesn't mean you won't benefit from adding small patches of deadener in between. There used to be a good website called sound deadener showdown. He originally claimed covering only 25% was effective, but then revised that up to 75% after doing a lot of testing. I've done just about any panel I can reach in my Wagon, including some hared to get spots like under the cowl; made a big dif in my opinion.
So many "articles" out there; which one was that? IMHO, using cast iron is a big stretch...
Thank you for your information , I now have a place to begin insulating my 51 willy's . NATEBasically it comes down to what you're trying to do; so what are you trying to do?
Once again, let's look at vehicular insulating materials:
Dyanmat (and all the other butyl products) is a sound deadener. This means when it's properly applied it will absorb the micro-vibrations in the metal that amplify sound. Think of it as a damper... It's a great underlayment to what ever else you use to insulate. My favorites these days are KilMat and Siless, both around 1.60 a sq. ft. (compare to the roofing crap mentioned above at 7 bucks!) and you can buy them in small packages thus eliminating waste. (compared to the roofing at a min. 7' roll). Also, could not find how thick the roofing stuff is, I would doubt it's the 80mil thickness of the automotive product.
Next you would have sound absorbers. My favorite is 3M's Thinsulate (yes, same stuff in your jacket) . It comes in two thicknesses for automotive use; 1" and 2". Obviously, the thicker the better. Not only does it do a good job at absorbing sound, it also has great thermal insulating properties. Something to think about when the sun is beating down or there's snow on your roof. It attaches fast and permanently with 3M's spray 90 adhesive. And it's totally hydrophobic, so condensation won't be absorbed like it can be in carpet. There are other materials like sheep's wool and recycled denim if you're going for a "green" feel. They work well from what I hear...
Then there are sound barriers, the best being lead but it's expensive and really heavy. The stuff I prefer is called Mass Loaded Vinyl or MLV. It has a density similar to lead but less expensive and easier to work with. But, both of these materials need to be decoupled from the metal, and you would use a Closed Cell Foam, or CCF, for that. If you don't, then the sound just transfers from the metal (firewall) to the material and into your environment. MLV makes a great firewall sound barrier, but it needs to cover it completely to be very effective, which means cutting to fit and taping all of the seams. You can buy it with a layer of CCF pre-bonded to one side to make th installation easier. And again, goes up permanently with 3M 90. Though I wouldn't bother with it on your roof.
Last but not least are the hybrids that include Noico's "Red" (a CCF material) and Lizard Skin, a spray-able coating. The first is an interesting product, I have some but haven't used it yet. It's a type of CCF that claims to be both a deadener and absorber and thermal barrier. OK.... but is it good at all 3? Dunno.
Lizard Skin gets mixed reviews. Some folks are all in and will tell you it's better than sex, but I've paid less for good sex; Lizard Skin ain't cheap! I would like to try it myself if I had the underside and the interior of my Wagon body sandblasted, surface prep is key for that stuff and it needs to be applied to as much surface as possible for max efficiency. Yer on yer own...
FWIW, in my wagon I'm using KilMat where ever I can stick it on (and yes, it sticks permanently to clean surfaces, including the inside of your roof, but get and use a ROLLER!) and then Thinsulate over that. I'm using MLV on the floors and I'll try the Noico Red on the inside of the firewall and underside of the cowl. And when you tap the body panels, you get a nice dull thud.
As far as home materials are concerened, sure you can cheap out and use roofing material, carpet, wood, pink fiberglass, whatever... It WILL do something! And it's better than nothing. But it might just soak up some water and get smelly or moldy or ? Then getting that sex will probaly be off the table after the first ride.
My moto is "buy once, cry once". Go for the high priced call girl or the skank at the stop sign; your choice
