Seat belts.

Pointy Grille said:
Tim, if you could post a pic of your race belts I'd like to get an idea of what you have.
40 years ago I had a set of belts in my 2A we called "race" but were made by Cat I believe. Really wide with shoulder harnesses that were a pain to put on but sure held you in and gave you a false sense of security whilst speeding around in an overpowered, under built rickety Jeep But hey, they had leather bits and the steel looked like it was from a WW2 machine gun!
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The photo is in my first post. I had the shoulder harness as well that went down to the floor in the middle of the other mounts. You are correct, a PITA to use and I couldn't even reach the dash with it on.
 
Pete said:
Here's how I did mine, scroll down a bit in the link to the seat belt info.

Pete
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Larry, & Pete, thank you for the pots. I had envisioned the exact type of plate reinforcements. It has to help, but I am still not positive that the B pillar itself will be strong enough to take a big hit.
 
cwdtmmrs said:
The photo is in my first post. I had the shoulder harness as well that went down to the floor in the middle of the other mounts. You are correct, a PITA to use and I couldn't even reach the dash with it on.
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Doh! I might be old but at least I'm blind.
Yep, those are what I had. Big 'ol 3" wide things along with the shoulder harnesses.
 
Pointy Grille said:
Doh! I might be old but at least I'm blind.
Yep, those are what I had. Big 'ol 3" wide things along with the shoulder harnesses.
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Yep. Along with the shoulder harness, there were other straps for your arms if you wanted.
 
Like Tim says, thanks Larry and Pete for the photos. I'm heading to Industrial Metal Supply for Sprinter parts but am adding steel plates for this project to the list as well. Looking forward to more pics from everyone else and yes I'll remember to wear my glasses
cwdtmmrs said:
Yep. Along with the shoulder harness, there were other straps for your arms if you wanted.
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That's getting into a kinda scary realm. ;)
 
Pointy Grille said:
Like Tim says, thanks Larry and Pete for the photos. I'm heading to Industrial Metal Supply for Sprinter parts but am adding steel plates for this project to the list as well. Looking forward to more pics from everyone else and yes I'll remember to wear my glasses

That's getting into a kinda scary realm. ;)
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I've ready that you should round the corners of the plates so that they don't cut open the sheetmetal like a can opener on impact...
Pete
 
Pointy Grille said:
Like Tim says, thanks Larry and Pete for the photos. I'm heading to Industrial Metal Supply for Sprinter parts but am adding steel plates for this project to the list as well. Looking forward to more pics from everyone else and yes I'll remember to wear my glasses

That's getting into a kinda scary realm. ;)
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That is exactly where I got my 4 pre-drilled plates from... Industrial Metal Supply here in Phoenix AZ... Bout 6 miles south of the house.. They had a big bin of them just inside the door.. both Square and rectangular with a rounded ends like what I used..... I'm in here frequently and purchase a fair amount of stuff... And if they don't have exactly what I need I know I can go up the road a ways to a scrap salvage yard that usually has all sorts of weird shapes and odd dimensions -and various cut-offs from different projects.

Larry
 
Pointy Grille said:
Currently, I have standard lap belts purchased from one of the popular sites. After reading about Mickey's misfortune, I'm considering something better. But I agree with Tim, that 'B"pillar is not what it is in modern vehicles that are engineered to take impact and provide a mounting point for a safety belt.
I remember a post not that long ago showing a flipped wagon somewhere in CA. Most of us were commenting on the conversion and the issues facing SOA's.But I do believe that post mentioned that the drivers were pretty beat up.
Fact is, even with the springs under the axles we're still driving vehicles with suspension derived from horse drawn wagons. ATC, driving an old Willys wagon or truck on modern highways is akin to riding a motorcyle on the street. And a little ol' CJ with a rag top? For me, going out in the wagon is like drawing straws, I just hope there are lots of long ones in the bundle. And it's not only getting hurt but messing up an old car that is hard to repair and I've got lots of B,S, n' T's into; but I digress...

In my mind I see a stylie roll bar fab'd from oval tubing and made to fit as close to the "B" pillar as possible. It bolts to the floor with braces underneath that attach to the frame. Not only does it provide 3 point mounting for the front seats but the rear as well if it has aft bracing. And it just might help keep that tin roof from oil canning on your cabeza!

But I'm no engineer so don't even ask. Plenty of folks on this forum that could chime in with real world designs.

Of course all of this begs the question: When is Mickey gonna post up a mug shot?
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Got any pics, or threads on how to build what you’re taking about? I have lap belts now, but I think I need 3-points.
 
After reading all this I agree we should do what we can to provide as safe a vehicle as possible. But in all honesty these trucks and wagons are no less safe than a tri five Chevy or any cars and trucks built in the same time period.
 
Big Dog Frank said:
After reading all this I agree we should do what we can to provide as safe a vehicle as possible. But in all honesty these trucks and wagons are no less safe than a tri five Chevy or any cars and trucks built in the same time period.
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I agree, and I also drive a 1962 Roll Royce Silver Cloud that I have not installed belts in yet. Even the 2 point belts were an option and very rare and expensive. I finally found a set of very, very rare 3 point belts that I will install in it soon. There is a factory bulletin on the proper installation with the proper reinforcements though. There is no such documentation for our Willys wagons/trucks. We are assuming that with a plate the B pillar will be strong enough to carry the load of a big hit, but maybe it is just a false sense of security. Probably better than not though.
 
cwdtmmrs said:
We are assuming that with a plate the B pillar will be strong enough to carry the load of a big hit, but maybe it is just a false sense of security. Probably better than not though.
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I used the retractable inertia reels off the same '90 sumthin' Cherokee that I got my buckets from. They are mounted to the B pillar with 2" diameter grade 8, 1/8th" thick washers. This will certainly make a big difference in the majority of accidents which happen in urban traffic, rather than hwy speeds. In a "big hit" so many more factors come into play -- the lack of a collapsible steering column, that adorable 60lb dog flying through me...

Note that I also have a 4pt harness on the driver side. I had this before the 3pt retractable. Without an inertia reel on the 4pt it's too impracticable for this ol' man to use -- can't reach the wiper switch for example if the shoulder belts are tight enough to protect you...

I'll investigate better reinforcement of the B pillar (especially now that MIG is my friend! :) ) but I think that as is it would make a world of difference compared to just a lap belt. For my '75 Scout, the only safe place to mount a 3pt harness is by adding a roll-bar. The Scout's B pillar is even weaker.
You could discretely add a roll bar to the Wagon -- the roof is more than high enough.
 

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I hear what you are say'n about the 4pt harness. I had one like that as well. A PITA to use, so I would only wear it off road. No way can you reach the dash in that thing. I appreciate everyone's responses. I will likely reinforce my B pillar and go with more modern retractables even though the look isn't right IMO.
 
cwdtmmrs said:
I will likely reinforce my B pillar and go with more modern retractables even though the look isn't right IMO.
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Oh right -- you're still running the oem low-back buckets...
Don't take this wrong -- your thread regarding safety which I commend. Low-back buckets and safety don't go together -- your likelyhood of back & neck injuries is so great with a low-back bucket...

I have a set of PT Cruiser seats that I'll be using to replace the ol' Cherokee seats in my Wagon. Better color match, they're heated, and the passenger seat folds flat allowing better access to the rear.
And since the PT was designed to be 'retro' the buckets won't look as out of place.
Also, if you can find seats from a convertible the 3pt harness is built into the seat. Wouldn't be too hard to modify the floor to accept both seats, safety seats for daily use and swap 'em out for oem when at a car show...
 
cwdtmmrs said:
I will likely reinforce my B pillar and go with more modern retractables even though the look isn't right IMO.
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Assuming I keep Wilbur, that is my game plan too. The question is how to 'reinforce' the B pillar itself. This (https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/product/WSCH300.html) is what I had already ordered one to see how it would fit/work in my CJ (it won't and being so open, it will flap in the wind and the metal bang on the rollbar). My plan was to use it in the wagon. Adding this behind (https://www.seatbeltsplus.com/produ...MIu7eig5SM4gIVBeBkCh1dgwA3EAEYASABEgI3PvD_BwE) but I think the B pillar itself could use some strengthen. Just how? I don't have Wilbur here to look at, but maybe cutting from under the body and threading up a pipe on each side then going across the top under the headliner?
 
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I have been driving my truck quite a bit these last couple of days. I have never been in an accident where the seat belts have actually had to lock up and hold me in place. So I assume it takes a couple of seconds for the retractor to actually react. As close as we sit to the steering wheel,at least in a truck, I wonder if the shoulder belt would actually stop you from doing a face plant into the steering wheel. One thing for sure it would hold you in place so the steering column could be driven threw you're skull in the case of a head on collision.
 
Frank, Those lock ups are pretty fast! I don't think you could hit the steering wheel.
 
cwdtmmrs said:
Frank, Those lock ups are pretty fast! I don't think you could hit the steering wheel.
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Do we know for sure they will function when mounted in the area we are considering mounting them in? I would hate to see a bunch of us go thru all this and find out they won't work.
 
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