Repowering option with wanting to go back to original in future

Zambit

Bigger Hammer
Feb 28, 2014
61
LaSalle IL
First Name
James
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
Ok every one I know this is going to sound just nuts and insane. I am doing a complete frame off restoration on my 56 wagon. Yes it is really a crazy thing to do since I never have even done anything major at all. As I said before it was my grandfathers. Now I wish to put the original 6-226 back into it for the power house. The bad thing is that it was already .060 over. So I know there is a major cost to make it right. also there is cracks in the block.

1. I know must be insane to even try to fix it. It was my grandfathers and I want to. I'm kinda sentimental like that.
2. It will need to be sleeved so all 6 of them no big deal I have a great mechanic and that is what the shop specializes in, also radiator repair.
3. Everything will need to be bought new since I will try to go back to standard.
4. Rough guess on rebuild cost on motor alone is 2-3K. Again I know its insane. But it's me.

So major question is my mechanic has a ford 300 straight 6 that ran a few years ago that he said he would sell me.

This motor is complete with transmission. the only thing that might not be on it is the brain box.

He said he would part with it for $200 to help power my wagon, until I can get my 226 rebuilt.

Now that being said.

1. How many frame modifications would it need to put into my wagon?
2. Will it bolt onto my T-90 transmission?
3. How much modification would it take to go back to the 226?
4. How would it affect the wiring harness?


Side note. The only thing I was really planning on doing in regards to upgrades is going to 12volt system.


Thanks for your input

Zambit
 

MaxAdventure

Sharpest Tool
Jul 14, 2011
270
Longmont, CO
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
..... I am doing a complete frame off restoration on my 56 wagon. Yes it is really a crazy thing to do since I never have even done anything major at all. As I said before it was my grandfathers. Now I wish to put the original 6-226 back into it for the power house. The bad thing is that it was already .060 over. So I know there is a major cost to make it right. also there is cracks in the block.

1. ..... It was my grandfathers and I want to. I'm kinda sentimental like that.
2. It will need to be sleeved so all 6 of them no big deal I have a great mechanic and that is what the shop specializes in, also radiator repair.
3. Everything will need to be bought new since I will try to go back to standard.
4. Rough guess on rebuild cost on motor alone is 2-3K. Again I know its insane. But it's me.

So major question is my mechanic has a ford 300 .... he would part with it for $200

1. How many frame modifications would it need to put into my wagon?
2. Will it bolt onto my T-90 transmission?
3. How much modification would it take to go back to the 226?
4. How would it affect the wiring harness?

Side note. The only thing I was really planning on doing in regards to upgrades is going to 12volt system.
Zambit


Zambit -

I have been slowing 'turning back time' on my Dad's Wagon he bought at a local dealership in 1960. It has always been a part of the family from camping trips, to hunting trips, to farm vehicle getting hay/feed and even some tractor duties like dragging the fields. All of his kids learned to drive on it. I had someone walk up yesterday and ask me how much I'd sell it to him for, I told him he couldn't afford it - he got it when I said we'd always had it.

I get your desire to go back to the way you grandfather had it! In my not too experienced opinion -

You've already listed considerations for repower - the adapters I've seen to mate to a T90 run +- $500 new. At $700 into it off the bat plus figuring out mounting and different engine management - I personally would much rather pick up a second 226 that I've seen the long block go for $200-$400. Even if it wasn't a strong runner, you can have your wagon live and drive while doing a proper rebuild on the original AND you are left with spare parts when you are done! If it were me, I'd totally go for a second 226 (and I have been wondering if I should myself as my engine is long overdue for an overhaul!) Sure, not as much power compared to the Ford 300 but then you won't missed the extra 40HP or so when you do go back! So much less headache and time if your end goal is original.

As for 12V - if you are going original, AND replacing the wiring, why bother going to the trouble of converting to 12V? Dead of winter my wagon is starting fine on 6V. I didn't have to monkey with voltage drop-down for the instruments, I'm not over speeding my starter, and I'm 100% original!

For those who stuck with original power on their Willys, I just don't understand the 'need' for 12V or disk brakes. Even with overdrive my brakes and electrical runs just as designed and even with an overdrive I have full confidence in stopping. The only ONLY thing that keeps bugging me in the back of my mind is a dual master cylinder for a redundant brake system - especially considering I want mild off-road and I'm hitting 50-60 MPH with the overdrive. The key for me is I drive it like a 1954 Willys and not my 2007 Xterra!!!!

just my opinion, hope it helps with yours!
 

Zambit

Bigger Hammer
Feb 28, 2014
61
LaSalle IL
First Name
James
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
I would just like to find another 226, I originally did that as I have 2 blocks already. Back in the very start of my project I found out my original block was cracked I was searching for a second one which I did find a few years after that had been running. Me being the idiot I was plunged into that one as well by taking it all apart instead of just making it run with whatever it was set up as.

As for the 12v system I really only want that for a few small things. Like a radio and possible cigarette lighter charger. As I am planning on driving this all around the country and putting tons of miles on it once restored it is going to be a daily driver, vacation option. Now if I can have a reliable radio and cigarette lighter option and still stay completely 6v then I do not have any issues keeping it 6v.

And if I can find a 3rd 226 that is running that I can drop into my wagon to get me going faster I would really like to that as well

I just don't want to spend much on getting that knowing what I want to do in the future going back to original motor.

Any help or ideas or leads on a 226 would be wonderful.
 

alphlulu

Bigger Hammer
May 13, 2010
122
San Jose, CA
First Name
Ron
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
While I can see the merits of 12v with alternator, getting an original 226 is the way to go. It's simpler overall.
 
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ChrisR

Sharpest Tool
Feb 21, 2014
435
Athol, ID
First Name
Chris
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
  1. 1953
I just don't understand the 'need' for disk brakes.
Eh, somebody pulled in front of me and then slammed on their brakes. Came rather close to detailing his tailgate. Glad I had those front discs. ;)
However, to the topic at hand: while I like the idea of getting another 226, all the ones I've seen are pretty spendy. If he can't find one, is there another equally compatible engine he can drop in? Just throwing that out there; I have no idea.
 

banman

Well Oiled
Dec 10, 2012
1,503
Ft. Collins, Colorado/ Galloway, OH...
First Name
David
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1954
Zambit--I can't assign a value to resleeving your grandad's original block. I don't think the serial #'s were matched on these wagons like on 'newer' vehicles but I may be wrong. To me, if it's a cracked block it's only value is in scrap weight...
If you really intend to drive this thing around the country you need to be honest with yourself at what speeds do you like to drive? The 226 will probably disappoint you... the stock gearing will for sure disappoint you...
I initially rebuilt my 226 and drove it cross country... Just over a year later I repowered it with a chevy 283 and 4sp tranny. It still drives like an old truck but with a reliable powerplant that can do modern speeds and off-road trails. You'll NEED 12v for headlites that actually produce light if you drive at night...
Using the ford 300 or any other engine will require welding in some new engine mounts and probably cutting off your old mounts. Don't do this unless you're going to stick with the 'new' engine. Crazy waste of money to repower and then remove those parts--better to build what you want the first time--believe me I know cause I made this mistake. I got lucky and was able to sell my 226 to a guy doing a restoration but I still lost a lot of money on it...
 

mathman

Well Oiled
Mar 14, 2012
2,967
AR
First Name
David
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
  2. Forward Control
Willys Year:
  1. 1950
  2. 1964
Side note. The only thing I was really planning on doing in regards to upgrades is going to 12volt system.

The easy route to 12v and keep it 'original'-ish would be to get the 12v generator/regulator setup from a 1957 model that was 12v (12v and 6v systems were used beginning in 1957 - I can dig up the Autolite numbers for them if you end up needing/wanting them)
 

jeepnut48

Bigger Hammer
Dec 3, 2013
58
Pikeville,Kentucky.
First Name
Randall
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
Zambit -

I have been slowing 'turning back time' on my Dad's Wagon he bought at a local dealership in 1960. It has always been a part of the family from camping trips, to hunting trips, to farm vehicle getting hay/feed and even some tractor duties like dragging the fields. All of his kids learned to drive on it. I had someone walk up yesterday and ask me how much I'd sell it to him for, I told him he couldn't afford it - he got it when I said we'd always had it.

I get your desire to go back to the way you grandfather had it! In my not too experienced opinion -

You've already listed considerations for repower - the adapters I've seen to mate to a T90 run +- $500 new. At $700 into it off the bat plus figuring out mounting and different engine management - I personally would much rather pick up a second 226 that I've seen the long block go for $200-$400. Even if it wasn't a strong runner, you can have your wagon live and drive while doing a proper rebuild on the original AND you are left with spare parts when you are done! If it were me, I'd totally go for a second 226 (and I have been wondering if I should myself as my engine is long overdue for an overhaul!) Sure, not as much power compared to the Ford 300 but then you won't missed the extra 40HP or so when you do go back! So much less headache and time if your end goal is original.

As for 12V - if you are going original, AND replacing the wiring, why bother going to the trouble of converting to 12V? Dead of winter my wagon is starting fine on 6V. I didn't have to monkey with voltage drop-down for the instruments, I'm not over speeding my starter, and I'm 100% original!

For those who stuck with original power on their Willys, I just don't understand the 'need' for 12V or disk brakes. Even with overdrive my brakes and electrical runs just as designed and even with an overdrive I have full confidence in stopping. The only ONLY thing that keeps bugging me in the back of my mind is a dual master cylinder for a redundant brake system - especially considering I want mild off-road and I'm hitting 50-60 MPH with the overdrive. The key for me is I drive it like a 1954 Willys and not my 2007 Xterra!!!!

just my opinion, hope it helps with yours!

If it is 56,should already be 12 volt from factory.I have original 56 truck that is factory 12 volt,6-226.
 
Last edited:

mathman

Well Oiled
Mar 14, 2012
2,967
AR
First Name
David
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
  2. Forward Control
Willys Year:
  1. 1950
  2. 1964
If it is 56,should already be 12 volt from factory.I have original 56 truck that is factory 12 volt,6-226.

If it really is a '56 it would have to be a really late '56 (or an early '57 that was tagged as a '56) - Autolite books don't show a 12v system in the Willys models until 1957 and I've never seen any official documentation that shows 12v before '57.
 

Zambit

Bigger Hammer
Feb 28, 2014
61
LaSalle IL
First Name
James
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
I have an early 56 before the dash reconfigured setup

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
 

pavel6

Well Oiled
Sep 27, 2009
1,758
Vancouver, BC
First Name
Pavel
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1965
James,
You'll probably find that the Ford 300, while being a very good engine, will be too long and end up costing plenty to adapt to your wagon (the firewall might need surgery).
Permit me to make a cheeky recommendation - either get another running 226 (with luck, you might find a decent example for $500) which you could slap in place and keep the old original one in your basement or, repower with something "modern", never looking back and keep the old original engine in your basement.
There's plenty of recommendations for "modern" engines on this list, few involve a Ford big six.

Forgive me!

Pavel

PS: if you can find a nice Tornado OHC six, disregard most of what I said... now that would be a good reason to carve up your firewall!
 
Last edited:

27willys

Bigger Hammer
Mar 23, 2013
162
Aberdeen nsw Australia
First Name
john
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
I just finished putting a 6-226 back in my truck after the PO had installed a Ford 221
The engine mounts had been removed to fit the Ford mounts, I had to weld in replacement mounts
The Ford engine has the clutch on the left side, and being in Australia my Willys clutch is on the right. You will find the Willys clutch will not fit yours as the Ford will be hydraulic
Mine had been converted to a Hydraulic clutch with overhead mounted pedal so I had to modify this to operate the Willys clutch
He had fitted a T84 transmission to bolt up to the Ford engine, I had to fit an original T90, The T90 will not bolt on directly. Then you have the input shaft length to sort out as well
The transmission cross member was moved and home built to accept the modified drive line, I did get an original mount.
My truck was originally a 4 cyl. so had to fit 6 cyl Radiator, which meant fitting a different grill, they are different.
Most of the electrics are on the opposite side of the engine, starter, alternator, oil pressure, temp sender, coil is in different position, need to completely rewire engine bay
Throttle linkage was different
Exhaust system modified


I was extremely fortunate in getting all the parts from the one person, I advertised on the net for either a 4 or 6 and he rang me and said he had both .
He only lives about an hour from me so I took a drive to see what he had

As it turned out he is a Jeep fanatic .
He came across an Pickup that had been converted to a Bush Fire Fighting Truck that had rusted out the frame and body because of a leaking water tank on the tray.
He cut all the good bits out including the engine mounts, transmission cross member, Radiator, Grill, T90 and Transfer case. Every part I needed except a water pump.
I even got a spare head,

He introduced me to his father who's property it was stored on and he once owned an engine rebuild workshop ( The best around here) and offered to rebuild the engine at the right price,

It is now up and running and purrs like a kitten,
I did fit a Pertronics ignition to it and an alternator
Rebuilt T90 and Transfer case


You might find it takes a lot of work to put the Ford engine in and then replace it again in a few months or years

While I had it apart I fitted ISRI Truck seats that I was given by a friend and they needed air so now I have an electric compressor fitted along the chassis and an air tank in front of the LH rear wheel. This is controlled by a pressure switch so it doesn't run all the time. It will run my air horns as well as giving me an air outlet for pumping up tires.
Just waiting on a few switches to finish off the electrics, Made up a new dummy panel to replace the clove compartment lid and will fit the switches on it.

WP_20140314_011.jpgWP_20140314_012.jpgWP_20140314_005.jpgWP_20140314_013.jpgWP_20140314_003.jpg



Some people wish it would happen
Some people want it to happen
Some people make it happen
 

Zambit

Bigger Hammer
Feb 28, 2014
61
LaSalle IL
First Name
James
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
Wow amazing looking truck 27 willys looks like will be on lookout for a 226 to put in for time being then. When I do my cross country I'm not overly concerned on how fast I get it done.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
 

diggerG

Well Oiled
Oct 2, 2011
5,365
Wrentham Ma.
First Name
Greg
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1963
Jim I've got a 226 that's .040 and has clean cyl. walls in my barn. send your wife over with her SUV. I'm in Mass.
diggerG FYI I think you're getting the right advice from these guys.
 

banman

Well Oiled
Dec 10, 2012
1,503
Ft. Collins, Colorado/ Galloway, OH...
First Name
David
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1954
Wow amazing looking truck 27 willys looks like will be on lookout for a 226 to put in for time being then. When I do my cross country I'm not overly concerned on how fast I get it done.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Just be sure you're sure...
I drove mine (226cu, T-90, D-18wO/D) from CO (my home) to AL.(summer work) to upstate NY (family visit) back to CO with dd everywhere along the way. I was younger and tougher then--I just wouldn't do it now 'cause it wouldn't be fun for me. I drove 65/70mph on the interstate no problem. You WILL feel the brakes pull on a hard stop from those speeds--I had great driving reflexes then and never got into trouble--I'm only 50 years old (so hardly a broke dick old man...) but my reflexes ain't as good as then...
I remember the floorboards burning my feet and I wore earplugs to cut down the whine of the dana 18...
In short, I'm glad I did it once and never have to do it again! Lots of honks and waves though. Stick to shady blue highways if you can!
And unless money is really NO object. Ditch the cracked block--no good will come of running it--spend the money on other parts. Turn the original engine into a coffee table for the man cave--seriously--a heavy plate of glass instead of the flat head so you can look into the piston bores and show the scars and cracks of time to your friends is a better way to honor that old tired used up block...
 

flashman

Bigger Hammer
Jun 26, 2010
172
Willys Model
Willys Year:
Here's the differing opinion. Repower, spend a little more and have a truck you can actually drive safely. I like the old iron to go to the drive in and such but to cross the country... no. Grandpa would be pissed if he was getting passed left and right by those damn Chevys and Fords, he would throw in a SBC V-8, 4:10 gears and kick their butts. Well that's what my Grandpa would do anyway. I'm not talking about a blown hot rod but something modern like a 4.3 with computer and A/C, newer tranny and disk brakes. Just another option, that ride would last through your grandkids.
 

Zambit

Bigger Hammer
Feb 28, 2014
61
LaSalle IL
First Name
James
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
As for block being cracked it is between walls 2+3 cylinder so when resleeved the crack will be taken care of. I will be getting another 226 to throw in and use it.

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jeepnut48

Bigger Hammer
Dec 3, 2013
58
Pikeville,Kentucky.
First Name
Randall
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
  1. 1956
Yes mathman,that was what I was thinking also,the VIN#55268 31920.It should have everything a 57 has then.Also has Auto-lite Distributor,Generator,Starter with the last two digits on each tag are 5L.Wouldnt the Vin# put it around the time of changing everything over for the 57 year? Thank's.
 

mathman

Well Oiled
Mar 14, 2012
2,967
AR
First Name
David
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
  2. Forward Control
Willys Year:
  1. 1950
  2. 1964
It's real close to the documented '57 model year (it shows 33447 as the starting serial number for '57). I'll have to dig out the Autolite books sometime and see if what they show for '57 matches the numbers on your bits and pieces (distributor, starter, generator).
 

mikec4193

Precision Fit
Jan 18, 2010
863
Mechanicville ny
First Name
Mike
Willys Model
  1. Other
Willys Year:
  1. Other
Hey Zambit

Take it from a old broke Jeep owner...if you want to really enjoy it and be able to drive it ditch that drivetrain. It wont keep up with traffic...folks dont wanna see you on the roadways when you can only run 45 to 50 mph....my 1947 CJ2A wont keep up with anything except maybe a farm tractor...

If you dont wanna really use it than try to fix what is there but...you will spend $1000.00 of dollars and it wont keep up with traffic...

Taking mom to the ice cream shop on a Sunday afternoon stock would be fine...trying to really drive it on the roads...stock wont cut it..

MikeC
 
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