Pete's 1960 Wagon

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. Welcome to the club![emoji3]


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Very nice John. Curious if you have any pics of how you adapted the PTO shifter to work with the overdrive, since the PTO moves to the rear, effectively under the seat.

Thanks,
Pete
 
Fabricated a bracket as seen. Pretty simple as I have little to no fab skills. Not a lot of clearance for the pto shift under the floor. I had to cut the top off of the shift tab that sticks up from the pto[emoji15]
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Thanks for the pics John, I've got my work cut out for me...

Pete
 
Thanks for the pics John, I've got my work cut out for me...

Pete

Wow! That's a lot of stuff in a small place. That don't look like a weekend job for sure. Question. How exactly does the winch drive work? Can you be in gear using the drive train at the same time you are winching? The only experience I have with a winch is a 120,000 pound one on the back of a Cat D8T dozer. When you hook that bad boy up something is going to move!
 
I’ve only used the winch to spoil the wire so I’m not sure if you could or why you would use it with other drivetrain functions. I guess I could try when I get an opportunity to test it out [emoji3]


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First engage the PTO, then pick standard or overdrive on the overdrive box. Then you put the t-case in neutral and pick a gear in the transmission. Let out the clutch and the spinny bits start spinning. Or put the t-case in high or low and then everything goes. I would have to think it quite the learning curve to pick just the right ratio of PTO/winch rpm to wheel speed to make it all happy.

Master of unfinished projects
 
I’ve never used my winch to pull the wagon forward from a stuck situation, I’ve only used it to pull other things with the wagon stationary and the T-case in neutral.

You can use the winch and turn the wheels at the same time too, with variable speeds.

The transmission/t-case controls the winch via the clutch, so you can spool the cable out with reverse too.

Pete
 
Spent a couple of days working on the OD install. I didn't take a bunch of pics of the OD part, it's pretty straight forward and there's lots of info on the web about how to do it...
Here's all the parts layed out on my workbench-
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First I removed the PTO case, and the old drive gear. Installed the sun gear, lock washer, and clip. Then the OD unit and shifter.
All of this was fairly easy and took a couple of hours. If it weren't for the PTO, I'd be done...

Here's the PTO, with the shifter that used to come straight up through the floor.
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Since the PTO moves toward the rear about 11", the top of the PTO case is under the seat and the shifter has to be changed...
The shifter is a pretty simple piece, so I decided to try and make another one, cut down to work with a little heim joint similar to what Indian John did with his setup.
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I started with an old U-bolt, which was about the right diameter. I used a handheld grinder with a flap disk to shape the new piece to match the original as best I could...
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Test fitting the new piece, it came out pretty good.
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I shaped the top of the new piece to fit into the heim joint.
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Once I had everything fitted and working, I hardened the piece by heating and quenching in oil.
Here's the finished piece, assembled with a new rubber seal cut from a piece of inner tube.
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I tried to keep the assembly as tight to the PTO case as possible, because the clearance to to the floor is so tight.
I test fit the PTO case with the linkage in place, and I can force it into place but the top of the new shift piece is snug against the bottom of the floor.
There's no way to make it any smaller, and I don't want to cut the floor, so I think it's time to replace my body mount rubber bushings. They are original and compressed almost flat. The floor support braces are almost touching the frame. The new rubber bushings will lift the body about 1/2", which will give me plenty of clearance for the PTO shift linkage. Not looking forward to doing this, getting the body bolts out is a total pain...

I'm going to order the new body bushings, and while I wait for them to arrive, work on making the braket to hold the PTO shifter on the top of the transmission.

More to come!

Pete
 
Pete, if you are going to run the OD/Adapter/PTO, I STRONGLY suggest that you drill and tap a NPT fill plug about 1/2 up on the side of the PTO adapter and keep it filled with oil to that line. Think about how the OD is lubricated. When it is just the OD, oil is sl;ung from the intermediate gear into the sheet metal trough a and fills the the rear bearing cap. The oil is then forced down the hollow gear shaft to oil the planetary gears, etc. Once you remove the rear bearing cap and replace it with the PTO adapter, there is nothing to keep the oil from being pumped into the adapter and then in to the PTO proper and starving the planetary gears, pins and gear shaft to the point of failure. Don't ask me how I know that. If you don't believe me, assemble everything except the PTO and see how fast the oil is pumped to the back of the PTO adapter! When running this set-up, everything must be pretty full of oil. You will have more leaks/weeps/drips for sure, but you won't experience the static driving mode. I also recommend carrying the stock drive gear, cover, bolts, gasket and proper socket to revert back to pre-OD state if/when you have a melt down. Honestly, the AA Saturn OD is not even close to the quality as the original Warn units.

I've been doing this stuff for a long time, and have made all of the mistakes possible!
 
Pete, if you are going to run the OD/Adapter/PTO, I STRONGLY suggest that you drill and tap a NPT fill plug about 1/2 up on the side of the PTO adapter and keep it filled with oil to that line.

Tim,
Wondering which PTO unit you are running?

I have the Koenig, which has five pipe plugs on the face, one over each of the mounting bolts. I didn't realize until yesterday that the PTO can be removed/installed without splitting the case, because the allen bolts that mount it to the adapter/t-case fit through the pipe plug holes... Learn something new every day. :)

Here's a couple of pics of the PTO case-
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There are three large holes in the case that let oil flow between the PTO case and the adapter case. Two of the pipe plugs in the PTO case are at about mid height on the adapter, and two of them are very near the top of the adapter.

Unless I'm missing something, it would seem to me it will be fairly easy to fill the adapter to the halfway mark or higher, through the PTO case pipe plugs.

The Ramsey PTO unit is quite a bit different, as seen in Indian John's pics above, not sure how the oil flows in this setup.

Pete
 
Pete,

Yes I have the Ramsey. All of those pipe plugs are pretty neat! It is still a good idea to drill/tap another pipe plug hole in the PTO adapter and fill from the PTO until oil runs out there. It is also a good idea to fashion an addition mount for the PTO to body/frame. There is a lot of leverage on the 4) 3/8" bolts that hold the whole shebang to the 3/8" thick aluminum Saturn OD. Those holes were only designed to hold the bearing retainer cap and not the force generated by the extra weight and flex of the PTO and adapter. Just say'n.
 
Pete,

Yes I have the Ramsey. All of those pipe plugs are pretty neat! It is still a good idea to drill/tap another pipe plug hole in the PTO adapter and fill from the PTO until oil runs out there. It is also a good idea to fashion an addition mount for the PTO to body/frame. There is a lot of leverage on the 4) 3/8" bolts that hold the whole shebang to the 3/8" thick aluminum Saturn OD. Those holes were only designed to hold the bearing retainer cap and not the force generated by the extra weight and flex of the PTO and adapter. Just say'n.

It looks like the Ramsey hangs out another 6-8" past where the Koenig sits. Adding a support would be a good idea though.
Pete
 
The Ramsey is 7 3/4" and the adapter is about 4" for a total of about 12". Multiply that by a good hard bounce off road and see what kind of stress is in the OD.
 
New body mounts from Walck's arrived, along with new u-joints for the rear driveline. The new rubber pucks should give me about 1/2" body lift over the original clapped out mounts. And my rear u-joints have been near death for years, time to deal with them while I'm under there...

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Hoping to get after the body mounts this weekend, which I'm dreading. When we did Joseph's, most of the bolts had to be twisted off to remove them, and it was a very dirty job...

More to come!

Pete
 
New body mounts from Walck's arrived, along with new u-joints for the rear driveline. The new rubber pucks should give me about 1/2" body lift over the original clapped out mounts. And my rear u-joints have been near death for years, time to deal with them while I'm under there...

IMG_1181.jpg

IMG_1184.jpg


Hoping to get after the body mounts this weekend, which I'm dreading. When we did Joseph's, most of the bolts had to be twisted off to remove them, and it was a very dirty job...

More to come!

Pete
I made my mounts out of a roller used on boat trailers puchaed off eBay. Increased the size to 1”. Remember “heat” is a great equalizer on rust.
 
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