New to Willys...Some 226 questions...

cvultaggio

Gear Grinder
Sep 17, 2010
21
Willys Model
Willys Year:
I have a newly acquired 1961 Willys 4wd wagon. I'm looking to do an oil change and can't find any information on the correct oil weight to use and the capacity of this engine. Also if there is a oil brand you recommend going with. I was looking at the amsoil 10w-40 with zinc. Thanks for you help.
 
Carl, When these things were made just about everything used straight 30 weight. That's what the manual calls for. I use 10-30 wt. I live in Missouri and we occasionally (like last winter) have hard winters, so I like a multi weight oil in my 226. I stay away from 10-40 only because a lot of the newer 1988 on up will say specifically not to use that weight. I don't know why. Anyhow, I now have a mental block for that weight. No matter where you are at a 10-30 wt should do you just fine.

Filters: I like WIX. Plus they are easy to find for the canister type set up.

Welcome to the Wonderful Worl of Willys. :)
Steve

Oh, I'm a Castrol GTX guy myself.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. How many quarts should I figure getting? Do you use any additives for zinc in you engine?
 
Carl, I have not run any oils with Zinc. I should say though, that I think it's a good idea for these type of flat tappet engines. I have been so focused on valve seats that I guess I neglected to think about other factors. While I cannot recomend any brand of zinc additive, I do like what I see about ZDDP. I would stay away from sythetic oils in this engine, only because I believe synthetics in older engines gives a false sense of security. I like to stick with conventional oils and frequent oil changes to keep things clean. Just a preference. So yes, I think zinc is good.

If your engine has not been rebuilt with hardened valve seats make sure to use a lead additive every so often. Mine are toast, which is why I pulled it last year. Still waiting on funds for a GOOD rebuild. Spring is getting closer! :lol:
Steve
 
Ahhh, here we go. I thought I was blocked from posting, but it seems to only throw me out if I use the smilies. No more smilies for me I guess.

Carl, I sent you an email but wanted to get this out on the forum. Zinc in these older engines in my opinion is a real benefit. I haven't used it, but plan on it after my engine gets rebuilt and broken in. Next spring I hope. The timeline keeps slipping. Personally though, I would stay away from synthetic oils in older engines. I believe they give a false sense of security. I prefer to use a conventional oil with frequent oil changes. Just my preference. Synthetics are great products. I just don't want to spend the money on them, because I would still stick with frequent oil changes and that could get expensive. So yes, I think zinc is good. Don't forget about lead additive if your engine hasn't been rebuilt with hardened valve seats.

Check out ZDDPPLUS and see what you think about it.
Steve
 
I think that any high quality multi grade oil will work just fine. I have been using Shell Rotella 15-40 in all my vehicles for years, it contains 1300ppm of ZDDP.
 
I thought rotella recently had the zinc taken out of it. I could be wrong.

How many quarts does the 226 take?

Also, I was poking around underneath the truck and noticed some seepage coming from where the fuel line meets the clips that hold it to the frame. None of the willys parts suppliers I've looked at sell a fuel line kit for my wagon. What size line would I use from the tank to the pump.
Thanks, Carl
 
Those old engines were made for oils and fuel that used zinc and lead respectively. I would also give consideration to to a 40 wt if you have a high mile engine and or live in a warm clime. With winter coming on the 30 wt will work for temps at or around freezing and above.

As for Rotella by Shell I do run it in my F350 diesel rig and they do make a good line of oils. That said, look close and as said already I would skip the syn's and syn blends.

Of course you are not burning lead in your gasoline and the valves will beat the valve seats into submission, then you will burn oil like you are fogging for mosquito's.

While I applaud those who want to hang on to the engines for the sake of keeping it original the fact is the engines are not a whole lot to write home about into todays modern world. Worse yet you cannot make that into a modern engine anymore than you can put lipstick on a pig and make it look any better than Nancy Pelosi.

These rigs runs axles in the 5.xx range and they do so in order to get enough multiplication to be able to run down the road and pull themselves with street traffic (30 mph). Don't get me wrong for their time and place they did the job and they are sturdy enough as long as you don't go outside their parameters. They were never made to run down the highway at 75 mph or even 55 mph. They were noted for being great local delivery rigs, did it and did it well.
 
According to my service manual, the 6-226 takes 5 quarts of oil. Straight 30 weight oil is what was recommended from the factory. However, depending on the condition of the engine etc., 10w-30 up to 20w-50 may be satisfactory. I agree with all the others to avoid synthetic oil. Unless the engine was rebuilt yesterday, synthetics will do you no good and may even harm the engine.

For your leaky fuel line, cut off the bad part with a tubing cutter, take it to your local auto parts store and match the size buying steel brake line tubing. Chances are it's 5/16, but I'm not sure. You can use a brass compression union to splice the old line to the new. Check the entire line. If it looks bad, run all new. The brake tubing is mild steel and you can make gentle bends with your hands.

Here's where I may make enemies, but years of experience with these old engines have taught me a lot. First is the use of a lead addative. It's not necessary unless you drive the car every day. Then-- an addition of lead additive every few weeks is OK. I've read studies that showed if you drive the car at sustained high rpm every day for about 20,000 or more miles a year, you MIGHT see valve seat erosion in about 5 years or so. So--how many of us drive these old beasts like that?? These old engines are low compression with light valve spring tension AND they were made out of very high quality steel. I've found that most people who use lead additives use too much which leads to lead deposits on the valves and fouling of the spark plugs.

Same goes for the zinc in the oil. The only cams I've seen or read about failing are NEW cams used when the engine was rebuilt. Guess where most new cams are made? You got it------CHINA!!! If your engine has the original cam, it was made in America out of real steel, heat treated properly and "seasoned" with zinc from all the years it ran with zinc rich oil. I've got a '67 Ford Fairlane I've been using as my own test bed. (Ford parts are plentiful and cheap). I've used NO lead additive or zinc--drive the car 2,000-3,000 miles a year, sometimes all day long on the interstate at 65-70 mph and have seen NO deterioration in performance, compression, oil usage or anything bad. I've had the car over 25 years.

Just my opinion. It's your vehicle and you do what makes you comfortable.

Luck,
Old Willy
 
anymore than you can put lipstick on a pig and make it look any better than Nancy Pelosi.
Now that's FUNNEEEEEE!
 
Old Willy said:
...I've got a '67 Ford Fairlane I've been using as my own test bed. (Ford parts are plentiful and cheap). I've used NO lead additive or zinc--drive the car 2,000-3,000 miles a year, sometimes all day long on the interstate at 65-70 mph and have seen NO deterioration in performance, compression, oil usage or anything bad. I've had the car over 25 years...

You got to give weight to actual experience. (I like that era of Fairlane, by the way.)
 
Old Willy said:
Here's where I may make enemies, but years of experience with these old engines have taught me a lot. First is the use of a lead addative. It's not necessary unless you drive the car every day. Then-- an addition of lead additive every few weeks is OK. I've read studies that showed if you drive the car at sustained high rpm every day for about 20,000 or more miles a year, you MIGHT see valve seat erosion in about 5 years or so. So--how many of us drive these old beasts like that?? These old engines are low compression with light valve spring tension AND they were made out of very high quality steel. I've found that most people who use lead additives use too much which leads to lead deposits on the valves and fouling of the spark plugs.

Same goes for the zinc in the oil. The only cams I've seen or read about failing are NEW cams used when the engine was rebuilt. Guess where most new cams are made? You got it------CHINA!!! If your engine has the original cam, it was made in America out of real steel, heat treated properly and "seasoned" with zinc from all the years it ran with zinc rich oil. I've got a '67 Ford Fairlane I've been using as my own test bed. (Ford parts are plentiful and cheap). I've used NO lead additive or zinc--drive the car 2,000-3,000 miles a year, sometimes all day long on the interstate at 65-70 mph and have seen NO deterioration in performance, compression, oil usage or anything bad. I've had the car over 25 years.

Just my opinion. It's your vehicle and you do what makes you comfortable.

Luck,
Old Willy
Old Willy, you have brought up some points that have rattled around in my brain on this subject. I have often wondered just how long it would take for the wear to take place and you answered it. That said, my limited exp with this has been in more Hi-Perf engines with compression up to 11:1 and as many as 3 valve springs w/ solid lifters (OEM 327/427 Chevy). I know they cannot handle a lot unless the engines are rebuilt to new specs.

Speaking of specs: A prime difference between old and new components (engines/trans) is not in the specs themselves but rather in the allowed tolerances = '+/-'. To illustrate: a bearing spec is .0003. That spec is as true today as it was on the old Willys engine, but what has changed today is the allowable tolerance. So the original spec was .0003 +/- .0001. Today the spec would read: .0003 +/- .00001.

The difference is that we have better machinery to work to closer tolerances AND we have SYNTHETIC oil. Syn oil has LONGER and STRONGER 'chains' of oil molecules.

While there is most likely nothing wrong with using a syn oil in your old Willy or even a Model T engine the fact is it does no good other than make the store where you bought a little more money.

In the old days straight weight was the answer and when an engine got old and tired started burning oil then you just gradually added heavier weight oil to compensate. Our old ranch truck used 50 wt and we we add a quart of 90 or 110 wt axle oil in the summer time.

In the old days if you bought a new car and it burned a quart of oil every 1000 miles it was a good engine, today that would get you a new engine.

Thanks for the post Old Willy
 
I had a feeling I was going to open a can of worms talking oil here. From what I got from the previous owner, my truck was owned by a Pennsylvania farmer most of it's life. The only reason it left his possession is because he died and his daughter sold it. What I'm getting at is that the truck has 82k on the clock and I don't think the engine has ever been apart. It runs very well and I want to keep it that way without tearing the engine down any time soon. I appreciate everyones input and I'm sure the forum will be a great asset for my future questions.
 
Old Willy, you have brought up some points that have rattled around in my brain on this subject. I have often wondered just how long it would take for the wear to take place and you answered it. That said, my limited exp with this has been in more Hi-Perf engines with compression up to 11:1 and as many as 3 valve springs w/ solid lifters (OEM 327/427 Chevy). I know they cannot handle a lot unless the engines are rebuilt to new specs

Don, you hit the nail on the head!!! This whole zinc and flat tappet cam thing came about from guys building engines with big cams, multiple valve springs with lots of pressure and they were tearing the lobes clean off. I read an article that said you should break in a new engine with only one spring per valve and a zinc additive, then take it all apart, add the other springs and add the additive at each oil change. Sounds like WAY too much work for me!!! The engine shops started screaming because they were eating a bunch of high tech parts. I HAVEN'T READ OR HEARD OF A SINGLE CAM FAILURE IN AN OLDER ENGINE YET. If anyone has, I'd like to know. If I built a new engine like you describe, I'd be looking for zinc--but I think the old motors will run fine without it. However--if the dollars spent buys piece of mind then go for it.

Carl, just go get a good quality oil of your choice, change it frequently, keep an eye on your oil pressure and temp and enjoy your new ride!!

Have Fun,
Old willy
 
that's an insult to the pig!!!! but a good one lmao i run 40w here in the phoenix area because it's 100 degrees and my 230 ohc is half worn out. i get into arguments about it, but if i lived in cold climate i would run multi weight in the winter. just my two cents worth.
 
I went with Amsoil 20w-50. I've had great results with their other lubricants in my 2004 wrangler. What do you think of the weight?
 
Oil is in and it feels great. The old oil was pretty black but not low at all. Now on to the fuel line. I think I'm going to take off the old one and bring it to a local brake shop to have it bent up right. Does anyone have experience with cunifer alloy lines? They're supposed to be rust proof. http://www.fedhillusa.com/
 
I personally shy away from Amsoil. It is not officially SAE certified to my knowledge; they only say it is "compliant." I'll stick with the other brands that have been tested and certified. I personally run Penzoil Long-Life diesel rated 15W-40 in my CJ and the wagon. I have a buddy that builds drag cars that turned me onto diesel rated oil because of the zinc and I haven't run anything else in older motors since.

I also like to add a little Marvel mystery oil in the gas. I even do it out of habit in my antique outboard motors, etc. I don't know if it does any good, but it won't hurt it.
 
silicond17 said:
I personally shy away from Amsoil. It is not officially SAE certified to my knowledge; they only say it is "compliant." I'll stick with the other brands that have been tested and certified. I personally run Penzoil Long-Life diesel rated 15W-40 in my CJ and the wagon. I have a buddy that builds drag cars that turned me onto diesel rated oil because of the zinc and I haven't run anything else in older motors since.

I also like to add a little Marvel mystery oil in the gas. I even do it out of habit in my antique outboard motors, etc. I don't know if it does any good, but it won't hurt it.

Marvel Mystery Oil is nothing more than thinned out coal oil. Not good for valves and piston heads. There are many additives that are coal oil or vegi oil that are on the market. Found out when attending Aircraft Maintenance school that not all additived do what they sat and can harm engines. I prefer Quaker State eventhough owned by Pensoil the recipe is the same as when Quaker State started and has zink in the oil. Also the Wal-Mart brand is indeed Quaker State, just under the Wal-Mart logo in the blue bottles. :D
 
Interesting fact about Zink additive:
The Zinc Question
The latest "miracle ingredient" in oil additives, attempting to usurp PTFE's cure-all throne, is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, which we will refer to here after as simply "zinc."
Purveyors of the new zinc-related products claim they can prove absolute superiority over the PTFE-related products. Naturally, the PTFE crowd claim exactly the same, in reverse.
Zinc is contained as part of the standard additive package in virtually every major brand of engine oil sold today, varying from a low volume of 0.10 per cent in brands such as Valvoline All Climate and Chevron l5W-50, to a high volume of 0.20 percent in brands such as Valvoline Race and Pennzoil GT Performance.
Organic zinc compounds are used as extreme pressure, anti-wear additives, and are therefore found in larger amounts in oils specifically blended for high-revving, turbocharged or racing applications. The zinc in your oil comes into play only when there is actual metal-to-metal con tact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions. However, if you race your bike, or occasionally play tag with the redline on the tach, the zinc is your last line of defense. Under extreme conditions, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing, particularly between cylinder bores and piston rings.
However - and this is the important part to remember - available research shows that more zinc does not give you more protection, it merely prolongs the protection if the rate of metal-to-metal contact is abnormally high or extended. So unless you plan on spending a couple of hours dragging your knee at Laguna Seca, adding extra zinc compounds to your oil is usually a waste. Also, keep in mind that high zinc content can lead to deposit formation on your valves, and spark plug fouling.
Among the products we found containing zinc dialkyldithiophosphate were Mechanics Brand Engine Tune Up, K Mart Super Oil Treatment, and STP Engine Treatment With XEP2. The only reason we can easily identify the additives with the new zinc compounds is that they are required to carry a Federally mandated warning label indicating they contain a hazardous substance. The zinc phosphate they contain is a known eye irritant, capable of inflicting severe harm if it comes in contact with your eyes. If you insist on using one of these products, please wear protective goggles and exercise extreme caution.
As we mentioned, organic zinc compounds are already found in virtually every major brand of oil, both automotive and motorcycle. However, in recent years the oil companies voluntarily reduced the amount of zinc content in most of their products after research indicated the zinc was responsible for premature deterioration and damage to catalytic converters. Obviously this situation would not affect 99 percent of all the motorcycles on the road - however, it could have been a factor with the newer BMW converter - equipped bikes.
Since the reduction in zinc content was implemented solely for the protection of catalytic converters, it is possible that some motorcycles might benefit from a slight increase in zinc content in their oils. This has been taken into account by at least one oil company, Spectro, which offers 0.02 to 0.03 percent more zinc compounds in its motorcycle oils than in its automotive oils.
Since Spectro (Golden 4 brand, in this case) is a synthetic blend lubricant designed for extended drain intervals, this increase seems to be wholly justified. Also, available research indicates that Spectro has, in this case, achieved a sensible balance for extended application without increasing the zinc content to the point that it is likely to cause spark plug fouling or present a threat to converter-equipped BMW models.
It would appear that someone at Spectro did their homework.
 
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