How low can it go?

oblvnnwtnjhn

Sharpest Tool
Sep 14, 2021
269
North Alabama
First Name
Spence
Willys Model
  1. CJ
Willys Year:
  1. 1961
I've been all over the place with deciding on what build to stuff the 266 in. Leaning heavily towards a CJ or Wagon hot rod, more so a CJ.
How low can a CJ go? I'm thinking street slicks on the rear, tubbed. Think Manx dune buggyish hot rod done proper.

Have you seen a lowered CJ? I would think if anywhere, you West Coast guys have?
Watching Ian Roussel got me to thinking, then surfing the H.A.M.B and Kustorama.

The great thing is I can build up the frame/suspension with the body off, when the time comes, mate them.

Off the top of my head, 266 mated to Muncie 4 speed to Dana 44 rear end with proper gearing matched to the engine.

EDIT: Yep, it's been done: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/media/albums/cj5-dropped.45311/ I found the builder on FB, messaged him to get details on how he addressed suspension. Definitely adding a roll cage.
 
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DzlFC

Precision Fit
Oct 12, 2020
694
Rancho Tehama
First Name
Andy
Willys Model
  1. Forward Control
Willys Year:
  1. 1964
I always liked the
I've been all over the place with deciding on what build to stuff the 266 in. Leaning heavily towards a CJ or Wagon hot rod, more so a CJ.
How low can a CJ go? I'm thinking street slicks on the rear, tubbed. Think Manx dune buggyish hot rod done proper.

Have you seen a lowered CJ? I would think if anywhere, you West Coast guys have?
Watching Ian Roussel got me to thinking, then surfing the H.A.M.B and Kustorama.

The great thing is I can build up the frame/suspension with the body off, when the time comes, mate them.

Off the top of my head, 266 mated to Muncie 4 speed to Dana 44 rear end with proper gearing matched to the engine.

EDIT: Yep, it's been done: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/media/albums/cj5-dropped.45311/ I found the builder on FB, messaged him to get details on how he addressed suspension. Definitely adding a roll cage.
Willy's T bucket look....
 

rocket

Well Oiled
Sep 3, 2015
4,214
Sierra Mtns
First Name
Rodney
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1963
Cool idea. I'm looking forward to seeing your build.
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oblvnnwtnjhn

Sharpest Tool
Sep 14, 2021
269
North Alabama
First Name
Spence
Willys Model
  1. CJ
Willys Year:
  1. 1961
Current thought is tubbed for street slicks, the oversized Willys driver's seat (like the red one posted above by Rodney) for a rear between tubs, stock front/fenders. I'd like to employ Ian's idea for front and rear bumpers. Looking at the H.A.M.B build, it looks like he reversed the suspension. I may go a little further, see if I can implement a 4 link rear,
 
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rocket

Well Oiled
Sep 3, 2015
4,214
Sierra Mtns
First Name
Rodney
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1963
Here are a couple pictures of the 215 vs 4.0-4.6 Rover. First picture is a Buick 215 block. Note the lack of webbing between the main caps and side of block.
20220113_143805.jpg
Next is a spare 1998 4.0 Rover I have with the webbing filled in and the main caps are cross bolted with 4 bolts per cap. 2 in the normal position and 2 through the side of the block.
20220113_143449.jpg
1642114469160.jpeg
Here you can see most of the engine. Even in 98 they still had the provision in the timing cover for the distributor, but the machining was not finished as they used a crank trigger ign.
20220113_143435.jpg
The interesting thing is how few major changes were made from 1962 till 2006. The Rover finned aluminum valve covers and heads will bolt to a Buick/Olds/Pontiac. BOP timing covers and oil pumps, along with timing chain and gears and fuel pump drive eccentrics will all bolt on to the Rover engine. Bell housing bolt pattern is the same between the BOP and Rover, along with Flywheel bolt pattern and dia.
Rover heads will bolt to any of the BOP 215 blocks as long as matching valve train is used. Olds and Buick used different Rockers and push rods.
A couple things are different. The Rover crank is longer from the timing cover seal to the crack face. If using a BOP harmonic balancer and pullies, you need to make a tubular spacer and use a longer bolt to hold the balancer in place.
Rover starter bore in the block is a different size, so a Rover starter is required on a Rover and will not work on the BOP engines. The Rover flywheel pilot bushing is different size and stepped. And the bore is not as deep as the BOP. When using a T5 or Muncie GM trans on a Rover crank , the input shaft will bottom out in the crank, unless you trim about 3/16" off the transmission input shaft, or www.aluminumv8.com, has a motor plate that is thick enough to take up the difference.

I have a 4.6 4 bolt main Rover engine in my 1962 Cutlass, with an Offy 4 barrel intake and T5 transmission. I have used the 4-4.6L Rover heads on the Olds 215 Blocks with good success.

The newer Rover heads are better, with better valves, and hard seats, rockers are hardened and using the entire set along the pushrods makes for a good unleaded gas top end.

Intake and exhaust manifold are interchangeable. Some Rovers even had welded tubular headers from the factory.
I've heard but can't say for certain the Rover 4.6L HSE Calloways had bigger valves and ports than all the rest.
 
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rocket

Well Oiled
Sep 3, 2015
4,214
Sierra Mtns
First Name
Rodney
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1963
Great info @rocket I am sticking to all UDM/American in my build trying to stay as period as feasible for budget and time. I need to finish tear down of 215, get it to the machinist to check the block, bore and get the 300 crank install sorted,
Spence. Let me know how the machine work goes. I know it's a long way to Al. from Ca. but the Buick block I have is in very nice shape. Standard bore, no ridges, all the bolt holes are good, and very little electrolysis damage. I don't know how much a bare block with main caps weigh, but it can't be much over 100lbs. I have no use for it any longer. If it comes down to it and you need it, just pay for shipping. I think Fastenal would ship it reasonable.
Rodney
 

oblvnnwtnjhn

Sharpest Tool
Sep 14, 2021
269
North Alabama
First Name
Spence
Willys Model
  1. CJ
Willys Year:
  1. 1961
Spence. Let me know how the machine work goes. I know it's a long way to Al. from Ca. but the Buick block I have is in very nice shape. Standard bore, no ridges, all the bolt holes are good, and very little electrolysis damage. I don't know how much a bare block with main caps weigh, but it can't be much over 100lbs. I have no use for it any longer. If it comes down to it and you need it, just pay for shipping. I think Fastenal would ship it reasonable.
Rodney
roger that!
 

rocket

Well Oiled
Sep 3, 2015
4,214
Sierra Mtns
First Name
Rodney
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1963
roger that!
Over 25 years ago I found an add in a Periodical called the Scrounger. I bought about 4 complete Buick and Olds engines, several standard bell housings, 4 barrel intake manifolds, timing covers. Just a gold Mine pickup bed full of aluminum v8 parts for $50.00. I've used or sold more than I ever thought I would. This last Buick block is about all that's left. And I now have a spare 4.0 4 bolt engine complete.
 

oblvnnwtnjhn

Sharpest Tool
Sep 14, 2021
269
North Alabama
First Name
Spence
Willys Model
  1. CJ
Willys Year:
  1. 1961
Over 25 years ago I found an add in a Periodical called the Scrounger. I bought about 4 complete Buick and Olds engines, several standard bell housings, 4 barrel intake manifolds, timing covers. Just a gold Mine pickup bed full of aluminum v8 parts for $50.00. I've used or sold more than I ever thought I would. This last Buick block is about all that's left. And I now have a spare 4.0 4 bolt engine complete.
great to know, though I wish you still had a manual bellhousing.... ;-) Hopefully mine is in good nick, so far, looks low mileage but ya never know what small but project changing defect is lurking. Fingers crossed
 

two-bit

Precision Fit
Apr 11, 2016
546
West Ishpeming MI
First Name
Tony
Willys Model
  1. Pickup
Willys Year:
  1. 1960
Next is a spare 1998 4.0 Rover I have with the webbing filled in and the main caps are cross bolted with 4 bolts per cap. 2 in the normal position and 2 through the side of the block.
I did not know that Rover cross bolted the mains on that engine. Learn something new everyday.
I thought that was a Ford thing. (427 side oiler)
Makes for a VERY stout bottom end !
 

DzlFC

Precision Fit
Oct 12, 2020
694
Rancho Tehama
First Name
Andy
Willys Model
  1. Forward Control
Willys Year:
  1. 1964
Also, along the frame ideas, lotsa free plans out there in the T bucket community. They've spent 70 plus years working out geometry and steering components to get some safe handling and driving experience. So much available at speed shops.
 

oblvnnwtnjhn

Sharpest Tool
Sep 14, 2021
269
North Alabama
First Name
Spence
Willys Model
  1. CJ
Willys Year:
  1. 1961
Also, along the frame ideas, lotsa free plans out there in the T bucket community. They've spent 70 plus years working out geometry and steering components to get some safe handling and driving experience. So much available at speed shops.
thanks for sharing, nice resource.
 
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