How about electric power steering?

Igotthewillys

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#2

cwdtmmrs

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#3
Gary, I've looked into that as well and don't think it is our solution. Draws a lot of amps in situations where we would need it the most, IE., off road at idle. Plus as stated above, it is ugly and cannot be hidden. I am looking into the Classic Performance as posted in the other thread, but trying to see if an electric pump from a Toyota MR2 will suffice. Will need the MR2 steering CPU, speed sensor and steering sensor to do it correctly. Not a 5 minute job, but may work and not an obvious addition.
 

hames57

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#4
Not everyone needs the aesthetic of under dash area of the Willys to remain factory, so I suppose the electric could be a great and simpler way of getting power steering to the non-rock crawler crowd of which I am a member. I think it would be possible to construct a visually acceptable cover for the motor assembly. I hope someone of the daily driver crowd installs one of these and can report back in the future. My first 4 cars were no power steering and I don't remember any of them being a real problem. Those cars had bias ply tires with less rubber on the ground. I will learn soon enough if my 51 and my old arms and joints can deal with no power steering.
 

duke94

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#5
Not everyone needs the aesthetic of under dash area of the Willys to remain factory, so I suppose the electric could be a great and simpler way of getting power steering to the non-rock crawler crowd of which I am a member. I think it would be possible to construct a visually acceptable cover for the motor assembly. I hope someone of the daily driver crowd installs one of these and can report back in the future. My first 4 cars were no power steering and I don't remember any of them being a real problem. Those cars had bias ply tires with less rubber on the ground. I will learn soon enough if my 51 and my old arms and joints can deal with no power steering.
Hi Harry,
I agree about the lack of aesthetics of this unit, but I'd rather have the easy steering for my 75 year old arms! I don't go to car shows with it so all I want is easy to drive. I'm trying to get more info from EPAS Performance about installing it in a Willys PU. Clearly it fits an older CJ5 which I didn't think was that much different then a PU.
This is all I got from them so far:
"Hello,
Below you will find the product page for the kit you requested. We can change out ujoints or the entire lower portion to adapt to almost anything.
If we have the correct spline and size for that steering box we can supply it for you. If not we can make suggestions as to where to get one.

Please let me know if you have any questions"
Not much help, but a start.
 

martisan

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#6
That's pretty nice, but a little expensive. My guess is that a hydraulic setup wouldn't be as cheap as you thought once it was completed so maybe the electric is not such a luxury.
 

captainlance

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#7
I just read the information on their web page, it seems like a very viable way of adding PS. I've been looking at my 226, adding a PS pump to it looks like a real nightmare, especially with an alternator. I don't know the dimensions of the power unit, but maybe with luck it could be under the hood, and not in side the truck? I certainly think more research is warranted.
 

Pointy Grille

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#8
I'm with the Captain on this one. Adding a p.s. pump to an already anemic 226 looks like a headache, I would rather up the alternator, install a Victron Super Cycle battery and make it all electric.
I'm not sure if I want to scrounge MR2 parts, but I was pretty certain that an electric pump was the best way to proceed if using typical p.s. boxes like Saginaw, etc. This setup looks straight forward once the Ross box is working well.
Thanks Gary for finding this, definitely warrants a closer look!
 

captainlance

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#9
Rereading their web pages again, I don't understand their power requirement. It says it draws "9 amps," not a lot... then, it states a "60 AMP MOTOR." Maybe I'm confused, but the sizes of wiring shown on their kit will never pass 60 amps. I am going to call them on Monday, I also want to find out the dimensions of the actual power unit. Here is a link to the kit. Reading their "custom" page, it also says a "45 amp motor" is available for cars under 4000 pounds. This should work well for Willys wagons, and presumably, is smaller in size. I do worry about the Ross box being able to withstand the rapid turning, and resultant heavy load on the gearing under heavy load, ie: backing up, parking, etc. They are not very robust to begin with, and this may well precipitate their premature demise.
Just my thoughts, not gospel.
https://www.jegs.com/i/EPAS-Performance/563/9000/10002/-1
 
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cwdtmmrs

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#10
I'm with the Captain on this one. Adding a p.s. pump to an already anemic 226 looks like a headache, I would rather up the alternator, install a Victron Super Cycle battery and make it all electric.
I'm not sure if I want to scrounge MR2 parts, but I was pretty certain that an electric pump was the best way to proceed if using typical p.s. boxes like Saginaw, etc. This setup looks straight forward once the Ross box is working well.
Thanks Gary for finding this, definitely warrants a closer look!
I don't want to add a pump to my 230 either. Only spot is above the alternator and that is pretty crowded anyway. That is why I was considering a electric hydraulic pump.
 

duke94

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#11
Watching the video of the CJ install, it looks like the only mechanical alteration to do is cut a section out of the steering shaft and the tube. The rest is basic wiring.
 

cwdtmmrs

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#12
Watching the video of the CJ install, it looks like the only mechanical alteration to do is cut a section out of the steering shaft and the tube. The rest is basic wiring.
True, but you still have the Ross box, drag link and the steering to knuckle arm. That arrangement gives more bump steer and was notorious for loosening the bolts/studs. And it draws up to 80 amps. I am not saying it wouldn't be a viable solution, but I wouldn't cut my column/shaft to try one.
 

Blindmelon

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#13
12 years ago my Willys was a handful maneuvering in a parking lot... I was 60 at the time... My truck
must finally be getting broken in, now it steers with little effort in the same situations...Heh, heh, heh.
 

Pointy Grille

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#14
12 years ago my Willys was a handful maneuvering in a parking lot... I was 60 at the time... My truck
must finally be getting broken in, now it steers with little effort in the same situations...Heh, heh, heh.
Nah, you're just becoming that much more of a stud... All that upper body workout has done you good!
 

Blindmelon

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#15
Nah, you're just becoming that much more of a stud... All that upper body workout has done you good!

Sure...........Absolutely correct..............Probably not..................On the other hand when I was in my teens it took both hands and a lot of determination.
In my 50's only one hand and I had great aim... In my 70's now and I can do the same with no hands... But my aim tends to be off a bit.....
 

duke94

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#16
I had a call from the folks at EPAS Performance today (Saturday) with some very encouraging information. I had emailed them asking some questions and attached a link to this thread. Turns out the kit in the video will fit the Willys Trucks as well as CJ Jeeps. I requested some drawings with dimensions so I (we) can confirm that it will fit. Also, they agreed that the information about current draw was confusing. In actuality, the motor only draws 9 AMPs and that's only when you're turning.
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one of the kits assuming the dimensions they send meet the space requirements.
 

cwdtmmrs

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#17
I had a call from the folks at EPAS Performance today (Saturday) with some very encouraging information. I had emailed them asking some questions and attached a link to this thread. Turns out the kit in the video will fit the Willys Trucks as well as CJ Jeeps. I requested some drawings with dimensions so I (we) can confirm that it will fit. Also, they agreed that the information about current draw was confusing. In actuality, the motor only draws 9 AMPs and that's only when you're turning.
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one of the kits assuming the dimensions they send meet the space requirements.
I hope that is true about the amp draw, but I am skeptical. those are large wires for 9 amps and even the description on their web site says it is a 60 amp motor. I am sure it is only at full turn though. I hope it works!
 

ndnile

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#18
I hope that is true about the amp draw, but I am skeptical. those are large wires for 9 amps and even the description on their web site says it is a 60 amp motor. I am sure it is only at full turn though. I hope it works!
I expect the amperage would be proportional to the torque you apply to the wheel. Perhaps it is 9 amps to gently change lanes and much higher when you jerk the wheel to avoid the squirrel.
 
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#19
So how many amps does you're starter motor pull? 100? 200? I don't know but that is a big motor and oh wait! The engine is not even running yet! Keep in mind the generator or alternator charges the battery. The battery provides the power to do the work. It is a storage device designed to carry a heavy load at times and then be replenished by the charging device. The electrical load should be the least of the worries with this thing. You may need to upgrade the battery and depending on you're driving requirements you may need to replenish it quicker with a larger charging device.

Just my cheap opinion. Good luck with this guys!
 

cwdtmmrs

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#20
So how many amps does you're starter motor pull? 100? 200? I don't know but that is a big motor and oh wait! The engine is not even running yet! Keep in mind the generator or alternator charges the battery. The battery provides the power to do the work. It is a storage device designed to carry a heavy load at times and then be replenished by the charging device. The electrical load should be the least of the worries with this thing. You may need to upgrade the battery and depending on you're driving requirements you may need to replenish it quicker with a larger charging device.

Just my cheap opinion. Good luck with this guys!
All true. Your starter does pull that much, but for a few seconds and if you watch your amp gauge it takes a bit to replenish that. My concern, and no doubt this will not apply to everyone, is idle speed type driving off road or even Forest service roads when a lot of steering effort might be needed. If you still have a generator or a 35-55 amp alternator. you will not be putting out enough suds at those speeds and drain the battery. Gary (Duke94) is going to field test this for us! :)
 
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