Gotta Choke to Run ... Post FY Carter Rebuild Question ... 1962 Wagon 226

willspring

Bigger Hammer
Apr 28, 2011
109
Fletcher North Carolina
First Name
Will
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1962
Post FY Carter Rebuild Question ... 1962 Wagon 226

Just rebuilt myCarter YF with Kaiser Kit + got everything new from the filter back to the tank ... NOTE: We adjusted the float, per my manual at least 3/16" down, so it's in spec ... but something is wrong ...

Cranked right up, but won't run unless the choke is pulled out at least 3/4 ... Adjusted the the air/fuel mixture multiple locations, but did not help ... nor the idle screw ... we also noticed no vacuum going to the wipers ...

After repeated cranks and tinkering, we started getting gas seepage coming out of the bottom section - but not initially ... And it still won't run without the choke being 3/4 open ...

NOTE: It was running before we rebuilt the carb, so we have to assume the other factors are still operational ... points, plugs, wires, timing, etc ... + all new from filter back ...

Suggestions? Float?; Worn out base? (base looks replaced ie a different metal color);

Thanks for your help ...

Optimistically,
Will(ys) Springer
o|||o
 
Check to make sure your metering rod is at the correct depth. You may have it too shallow restricting fuel flow through the main jet.
 
Carb prob

willspring said:
I'm not sure on my terminology BUT the last brass shaft that screwed in the top was longer than the original ...
Click to expand...
Im having the same problem original carb. I Put new seals and everything i have to let it warm up foe 10 or 15 min then take the chock off its about 76 degree here then it won't to idle so low it cam like crazy I'm not complaining did replace exhaust valve springs.
 
Hi, It sound like the idle circuit is not getting fuel (won't idle), if the idle circuit is not plugged then the fuel level in the bowl(float adjustment) is to low, next it may be a incorrect part (metering rod) is installed. when your applying the choke it is is pulling fuel from the high speed/open throttle fuel circuit. my bet is in the float setting is wrong and next wrong metering rod.

just my two cents worth.


Ron
 
I'm traveling ... Don't have my book right in front of me ... BUT I set it according to the official Jeep owner's manual ... I stacked up drill bits so it was exactly on spec ... Going back to the original metering rod later today ... will advise ... Thanks Ron ...
 
Whew-I'm frustrated ... Carb still got issues ... I got everything new from the gas tank forward ... new built carb by Mike's Carb via J&J in Fullerton ... new gas pump ... plenty of fuel in a new transparent fuel filter ... new lines ... cleaned tank AND I got gas in it ... BUT

It won't run unless the choke is pulled out .. it will not idle ... runs real fast ...
 
What is really different. You talked about the float. Did you change it a small bit or a large amount. You also mentioned a needle being differnet that the oe you took out. Put thise things back as they were. It was probabaly not too far off to start with just cruddy. Good Luck
 
Hey 51willys truck,willspring,there is a guy on the cj2a page that is very good on the WO carb's,he was getting ready to offer work on the YF carb's also,he may be able to help with your carb problem's!His name is Rick[SCOUTPILOT].he is in Asheboro North Carolina,his e-mail is[scoutoh6@outlook.com] hope he can help!:)
 
If the choke has to be on, that means the normal idle circuit is way lean. Way. There are basically two causes:

- the idle circuit itself is dirty, foobar'd, or mis-adjusted.

- there is a vacuum leak.

Given the work you've done on the carb, I'm suspecting a vac leak. When it's running, spray carb cleaner around the carb base, the intake manifold, etc. For now, remove and plug all vacuum lines.

You can also unbolt the carb and smear heavy grease on the gasket. Go to a pool supply place, they sell a thick sticky silicone grease that holds vacuum well. I'm not saying it's a cure, but it is a good way to test whether something is leaking or not. It will fill gaps on worn blocks.

If the intake manifold flange looks anything less than pristine, take a very flat piece of 3/4 ply or similar and glue some sand paper to it. Use it to flatten and smooth the intake flange. Likewise on the carb.

Also: can you _see_ daylight thru the idle jet? If not, fix that. The float level matters but unless it's way off, it should still sort of idle.

And of course the first rule of old trucks: assume nothing. Just because a part is new doesn't mean it's playing nicely with the old parts, etc.
 
Vacuum leak. Hmmm
Not sure about how to do this.

I have the one tube that screws into the base coming across the head. Should I try plugging that?

Also there's no suction on the hose going to my wipers.

I cupped my hand on top of the carburetor. It has plenty of suction. And will almost immediately. Unless I remove my hand quickly.

I also took out the idle mixture screw and blowed compressed air through it. I even took out the new powder mixture screw and put in another one. I also backed out the idle mixture screw some more. On
 
​Do you have a vacuum gauge? It is a most useful tool to diagnose issues like yours. Having to use the choke to maintain idle is normally indicative of a vacuum leak. I concur with Oliver on this. You can check for a vacuum leak by spraying, in short bursts, starting fluid at every possible leak point in the intake system. With the engine running at a warm best possible stable idle, start at the intake manifold gasket and work your way across and out to the last joint near the top of the carb. Pay special attention to the throttle shaft where it enters and exits the throttle body. A change in rpm will signal a leak.
 
Sorry to hear your still having an Issue with the Carb,
I have to go with the other Post here it sounds like a large vacuum leak at this point...if all your vacuum ports at the carb are secure (not leaking} I would plug them off at the carb to confirm this...the next question is did you install a new base gasket?...if so are you sure it was the right one and it was not damaged during the install? .....

I went back on your post and was wondering what was the issue you were having that got you to rebuild the Carburetor in the first place?...was it the "will not run with out choke" ?
if so the Carb may not have been the problem in the first place...you could have a cracked intake manifold or failed intake gasket....just tossing out some issues I have run into when chasing similar running problems like this....the Vacuum gauge is and excellent diagnostic tool as suggested in an earlier post.... no top notch mechanic's tool box is with out one. most come with instructions as how to use it and what it's reading will mean.

I'm getting ready to rebuild my own YF Carter and rebush the cross-shaft, and install a new float, so I'm following you post closely....

Ron
 
It's not just the bores. It's also the throttle shaft that wears. Both will wear into an oval shape. You have to mic it to know how bad they are. .3125" OD for the shaft is new good. .3125" ID is new good for the throttle. <.3115" is worn for the shaft and >.315" is worn for the throttle.
 
thanks so much to all for helping on this carburetor situation.

RE: YF carburetor vacuum testing
REPAIRS TO DATE: fresh gas, clean gas tank, new gas line, new fuel filter, new vacuum pump on the new fuel filter, new transparent fuel filter, newly rebuilt carburetor by Mike's carbs,
STATUS: multiple vacuum leaks; runs fine when manifold connection is sealed.
GOAL: keep my Dad's Jeep stock if possible, but it's a driver-so I got to be realistic.

Tested vacuum system and found numerous leaks (resulting in increased rpms) by spraying each connection with starter fluid.

Plugged off intake manifold (the fitting coming out of the intake manifold just below the carburetor). Engine runs fine with choke pushed in. Yeah, that's progress.

Note: there is no/very little vacuum to the wiper motor coming from the connection to the vacuum pump, located on top of the new fuel pump.

Note 2: even MORE increased RPMs were observed when spraying the intake manifold gasket; the top off the vacuum pump; the butterfly valve carburetor shaft and that coil spring THANG connected down below (sorry I don't know the proper name).

Note 3: We are getting very little vacuum from the intake manifold through the small copper pot to the vacuum pump.

Q1: I have so many leaks I'm wondering is there an operating tolerance range for the vacuum system? Or should it be totally sealed with absolutely no leaks anywhere?

Thanks again for all your input and wisdom.
 
willspring said:
thanks so much to all for helping on this carburetor situation.

RE: YF carburetor vacuum testing
REPAIRS TO DATE: fresh gas, clean gas tank, new gas line, new fuel filter, new vacuum pump on the new fuel filter, new transparent fuel filter, newly rebuilt carburetor by Mike's carbs,
STATUS: multiple vacuum leaks; runs fine when manifold connection is sealed.
​
GOAL: keep my Dad's Jeep stock if possible, but it's a driver-so I got to be realistic.
This is possible and realistic.

Tested vacuum system and found numerous leaks (resulting in increased rpms) by spraying each connection with starter fluid.
Not good. Only calibrated venting should be active. If your vacuum connections are merely rubber tubing slipped over a piece of steel tubing then this is not practical in the long run.

Plugged off intake manifold (the fitting coming out of the intake manifold just below the carburetor). Engine runs fine with choke pushed in. Yeah, that's progress.
That is the vacuum port for the PCV system. Blocking it is not a cure. It will only mask other leaks.

Note: there is no/very little vacuum to the wiper motor coming from the connection to the vacuum pump, located on top of the new fuel pump.
If you are running a dual action pump (fuel and vacuum from the same pump) vacuum should be produced from bottom section.

Note 2: even MORE increased RPMs were observed when spraying the intake manifold gasket; the top off the vacuum pump; the butterfly valve carburetor shaft and that coil spring THANG connected down below (sorry I don't know the proper name).
Maybe a picture of the pumps and carb and plumbing associated with them. Intake manifold gasket leak could be either cracked gasket or improperly torqued manifold nuts.

Note 3: We are getting very little vacuum from the intake manifold through the small copper pot to the vacuum pump.
Don't know what you are describing as "the small copper pot". Definitely need picture.

Q1: I have so many leaks I'm wondering is there an operating tolerance range for the vacuum system? Or should it be totally sealed with absolutely no leaks anywhere?
Operating tolerance is ZERO, except for calibrated vents.

Thanks again for all your input and wisdom.
Click to expand...

You can send photos to me via email scoutoh6@outlook.com ​I am more attuned to visual clues.
 
Zero leaks is the goal.

The vacuum line to the distributor goes to a sealed diaphragm, so it should not be a source of leaks. The diaphragms do develop pinholes, though.

Hang in there, you'll get it finished! Find a leak and plug it. Find the next leak. Lather, rinse, repeat. ;-)
 
Scoutpilot said:
Plugged off intake manifold (the fitting coming out of the intake manifold just below the carburetor). Engine runs fine with choke pushed in. Yeah, that's progress.
That is the vacuum port for the PCV system. Blocking it is not a cure. It will only mask other leaks.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Not I'm not trying to Hijack the thread, but on my early 60's 226 this line has been plugged...when I unplug it, there is lots of suction and the motor wants to die with out choke, when plugged it runs fine. Where is this supposed to be connected?? can you help us both out?

I was having the same issues as the original poster until I found the vacuum leak (vacuum advance not hooked up).

Thanks!
 
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