gauges no do the worky

Derek_peters2914

Derek_peters2914

Bigger Hammer
Apr 15, 2020
54
Selah, WA
First Name
Derek
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1961
So I am currently attempting to get my 1961 Willys wagon a little more road worthy, it has a Ford 200 mated to all the other original running gear. I currently have the motor running well and the rig drives well but I'm running into issues with the gauges. Ii just got a new speedometer cable, but it still gives nothing. I also reconnected the wire coming from the tank, but still nothing from the fuel gauge. Luckily the oil pressure gauge works and i believe that I will be able to get the water temp going tonight.

Does anyone have any ideas on the speedo and fuel gauges?

Thank you in advance.
 
You can spin the little brass end of the speedo drive with your fingers... One way, then the other... The needle should move... You can go for
a little road test with the dash end of the cable pulled out so you can seen the inner turn as you drive... That's the 1st step..
 
Check the resistance of the fuel sender and based on your estimate of the tank level that it is good. Also, the fuel gauge should read 20 ohms or so. And it runs on about 4 volts "regulated" by a part off the back of the speedo.
 
Make sure the fuel sending unit is grounded properly.
Check that the fuel sending unit resistance changes as the arm move up and down, and that it is matched to the fuel gauge you have.

When I got my new poly tank and sending unit I didn't check it, but I made sure it was grounded. Sure enough, the fuel gauge doesn't change.

When I pulled the sending unit to seal it I ran an ohm meter on it. The resistance never changes no matter where the arm is. *sigh* one more thing to add to the list.
 
I am assuming your 61 truck has an instrument cluster that looks something like the one in the photo. I would also assume the oil gauge you are referring to is not a factory gauge but rather one added after the fact.

So from your original post I am hearing the mechanical speedo is inop . and both the factory equipment fuel level and the water temp gauge is not working. The speedometer is mechanical and Larry offered some good suggestions regarding figuring that out.

As for the two factory gauges they share a common power supplied through a "voltage reducer'. If that unit is not working both fuel and temp gauges will not work. Since in your case that is the condition I would start my diagnosis there. It is a small metal box attached to the back of the speedometer head. To test it you can use a voltmeter or a test light on the output terminal of the voltage reducer. You should get basically a very slow blinking light (once or twice a second) if it is functioning properly. The reducer is a set of contacts attached to a bi metal strip wrapped by a wire as the current flows the wire heats the strip and the contacts open, current stops flowing and the strip cools and the process repeats. The gauges are dampened movement so what happens is that is you get basically an on off operation of the power supply which powers the needles of the gauges.

I posted a pic of a Chrysler reducer to show the internals . Willys reducer works the same way.

If you find that to be the issue this would be a very good modern upgrade for that part. https://www.amazon.com/Converter-Ci...ie=UTF8&qid=1520640501&sr=8-10&keywords=LM317 .

This very condition has been discussed in this thread:

https://www.oldwillysforum.com/foru...ges-working-intermittently.13413/#post-136657
 

Attachments

  • 914845_enlarged_1_1.jpg
    914845_enlarged_1_1.jpg
    54 KB · Views: 26
  • 6.jpg
    6.jpg
    21.4 KB · Views: 25
Last edited:
so i dug into it some more the speedo gauge is compleatly stuck. my next delema is i cant really figure out how to get the gauge out. i found a pretty good looking repop that im going to order and im probably going to end up rewiring most if not all of the vehicle as everything is wire nutted together and is made of what looks like any random scaps of wire the previous owner could find.
 
Help.

Have a 53 pickup, under restoration, frame up. The box is free to be lifted. All new wiring, and checked the sending unit (new) and worked on the gauge when out of the tank. Move it to empty. Shows empty. 1/2 full shows 1/2 full. Full shows full, and when you move the float or arm it works, put the tank in frame, and installed the sending unit, the tank is empty, but as soon as the key is turn on it shows full? WTH is going on?

Disconnected the sending unit wire at the connection point by the master cylinder, and the gauge goes to empty. Can still raise the bed and take it out again if I have to but am very confused. All wires are good and not grounding out. Tank is mounted well and grounded to the frame. I don't want to put fuel in till I sure the sending unit doesn't have to be removed again.

Can anyone help?
 
LONGRANGEGUY said:
Help,,,Have a 53 pickup,,/???
Click to expand...
If it worked on the bench, did you have the sending unit grounded on the bench? It almost sounds like the wires are reversed. The gauges have a voltage regulator so did you include this during bench testing?? I would measure the input wire voltage detached from the gauge to see if its 5-6 volts DC. Yeah I wouldn't put fuel in yet.
 
your signal wire is shorted to ground . Somewhere between master cyl and tank. Could be pinched and contacting frame somewhere possibly. Perhaps the ring terminal on top of the sending unit is touching the sending unit body This can happen if you happened to use a washer that was too big. The wire must not be touching the metal sender unit housing .
 
Last edited:
KLankford said:
If it worked on the bench, did you have the sending unit grounded on the bench? It almost sounds like the wires are reversed. The gauges have a voltage regulator so did you include this during bench testing?? I would measure the input wire voltage detached from the gauge to see if its 5-6 volts DC. Yeah I wouldn't put fuel in yet.
Click to expand...
Not my first rodeo,,,and thanks so much for the quick response,,,but you didn't get or read all I wrote,,,all new wiring, gauge from truck on bench, , connected correctly, Found the problem,,the sending unit is bad,,,put another one on the frame next to the connection by the firewall,,other new one works,,old one tested in the same place does the same thing as when it was in the tank. put the other new one in and everything works,,,I did say I tested in on the bench,,and since it has all new wiring that's what I used on the bench with the gauge that was removed from the truck. This truck was completely striped,,I mean from window regulator screws to everything,,it was in all in boxes and bolts, nuts, in cans,,. looking much better now,,thanks
 
mrholmquist said:
your signal wire is shorted to ground . Somewhere between master cyl and tank. Could be pinched and contacting frame somewhere possibly. Perhaps the ring terminal on top of the sending unit is touching the sending unit body This can happen if you happened to use a washer that was too big. The wire must not be touching the metal sender unit housing .
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your help,,,,,Not my first rodeo,,,and thanks so much for the quick response,,,but you didn't get or read all I wrote,,,all new wiring, gauge from truck on bench, , connected correctly, Found the problem,,the brand new sending unit is bad,or went bad from bench to tank,,,put another one on the frame next to the connection by the firewall,( at the 3 way connector) ,other new one works,,old one tested in the same place does the same thing as when it was in the tank. put the other new one in the tank then, and everything works,,,I did say I tested it on the bench,,and since it has all new wiring that's what I used on the bench with the gauge that was removed from the truck. This truck was completely striped,,I mean from window regulator screws to everything,,it was in all in boxes and bolts, nuts, in cans,,. looking much better now,,thanks
 
mrholmquist said:
your signal wire is shorted to ground . Somewhere between master cyl and tank. Could be pinched and contacting frame somewhere possibly. Perhaps the ring terminal on top of the sending unit is touching the sending unit body This can happen if you happened to use a washer that was too big. The wire must not be touching the metal sender unit housing .
Click to expand...

Thanks so very much,,,but I did say I tested it on the bench,,ALL new wiring, gauge from truck,,,it had me really puzzled too, pulled the sending unit from the tank,,tested it at the 3 way connector by the brake cylinder,,,same result,,got another new unit from a 2A,,,works perfect,,tried the new one who didn't work,,same,,,sending unit is not good,,,between the bench and tank,went bad,,,was a real puzzle till I pulled it and tried the test.m other one work in the tank now. Thanks much for you ideas
 
mrholmquist said:
your signal wire is shorted to ground . Somewhere between master cyl and tank. Could be pinched and contacting frame somewhere possibly. Perhaps the ring terminal on top of the sending unit is touching the sending unit body This can happen if you happened to use a washer that was too big. The wire must not be touching the metal sender unit housing .
Click to expand...
Thanks so much,,but this is the fuel sending unit, not the master cylinder,,,did you read all I wrote? I did say I tested it on the bench,,ALL new wiring, and gauge from the truck,,,it had me really puzzled too, pulled the sending unit from the tank,,tested it at the 3 way connector by the brake cylinder,,( the 3 way new connector) ,same result,,got another new unit from a 2A waiting for a rebuild , ,works perfect,,tried the new one who didn't work in the tank,,same result ,,,sending unit is not good,,,between the bench and tank,went bad,,,was a real puzzle till I pulled it and tried the test on it at the 3 way connection, other new one is in the tank and working now. Thanks much for you ideas you guys are the best
 
mrholmquist said:
your signal wire is shorted to ground . Somewhere between master cyl and tank. Could be pinched and contacting frame somewhere possibly. Perhaps the ring terminal on top of the sending unit is touching the sending unit body This can happen if you happened to use a washer that was too big. The wire must not be touching the metal sender unit housing .
Click to expand...

Thanks so much,,but this is the fuel sending unit, not the master cylinder,,,did you read all I wrote? I did say I tested it on the bench,,ALL new wiring, and gauge from the truck,,,it had me really puzzled too, pulled the sending unit from the tank,,tested it at the 3 way connector by the brake cylinder,,( the 3 way new connector) ,same result,,got another new unit from a 2A waiting for a rebuild , ,works perfect,,tried the new one who didn't work in the tank,,same result ,,,sending unit is not good,,,between the bench and tank,went bad,,,was a real puzzle till I pulled it and tried the test on it at the 3 way connection, other new one is in the tank and working now. Thanks much for you ideas you guys are the best
 
KLankford said:
If it worked on the bench, did you have the sending unit grounded on the bench? It almost sounds like the wires are reversed. The gauges have a voltage regulator so did you include this during bench testing?? I would measure the input wire voltage detached from the gauge to see if its 5-6 volts DC. Yeah I wouldn't put fuel in yet.
Click to expand...

you see my response???? Thanks so much,,but this is the fuel sending unit, not the master cylinder,,,did you read all I wrote? I did say I tested it on the bench,,ALL new wiring, and gauge from the truck,,,it had me really puzzled too, pulled the sending unit from the tank,,tested it at the 3 way connector by the brake cylinder,,( the 3 way new connector) ,same result,,got another new unit from a 2A waiting for a rebuild , ,works perfect,,tried the new one who didn't work in the tank,,same result ,,,sending unit is not good,,,between the bench and tank,went bad,,,was a real puzzle till I pulled it and tried the test on it at the 3 way connection, other new one is in the tank and working now. Thanks much for you ideas you guys are the best
 
I would suggest quitting the cut and paste generic responses. You asked for help and suggestions, I did read all you wrote, not my first rodeo either but may be my last.
 
LONGRANGEGUY said:
Thanks so much,,but this is the fuel sending unit, not the master cylinder,,,did you read all I wrote? I did say I tested it on the bench,,ALL new wiring, and gauge from the truck,,,it had me really puzzled too, pulled the sending unit from the tank,,tested it at the 3 way connector by the brake cylinder,,( the 3 way new connector) ,same result,,got another new unit from a 2A waiting for a rebuild , ,works perfect,,tried the new one who didn't work in the tank,,same result ,,,sending unit is not good,,,between the bench and tank,went bad,,,was a real puzzle till I pulled it and tried the test on it at the 3 way connection, other new one is in the tank and working now. Thanks much for you ideas you guys are the best
Click to expand...

You ask for help , several members offer suggestions then you copy and paste " not my first rodeo" several times ........

Yes I did read all you wrote......

You originally wrote......

"Disconnected the sending unit wire at the connection point by the master cylinder, and the gauge goes to empty. Can still raise the bed and take it out again if I have to but am very confused. All wires are good and not grounding out. Tank is mounted well and grounded to the frame. I don't want to put fuel in till I sure the sending unit doesn't have to be removed again. "

When I suggested the signal wire is shorted to ground between the master cylinder and the tank, I figured you would know I was referring to the connector near the master cylinder that you already mentioned and the sending unit in the tank. That wire between the connector near the master cylinder and the tank sending unit had to have continuity to ground for the gauge to read full and then empty when you disconnected it. As far as the sending unit going bad from the time you tested it on the bench at the time you then installed in the tank... extremely unlikely. Being a wiper running on a series of resistance wire, barring physical damage when you put it in the tank it is difficult to see that happening. It would possibly be worth testing the bad sensor with an ohmmeter to pinpoint exactly what happened.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top