Oil galleries and/or crank debris would be my guess also. It doesn't take much to screw up the works. And why I prefer to put them together myself. If nothing else, it's easier to correctly place the blame when things go south.
Fino's ‘58 Wagon
- Thread starter FinoCJ
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Tralehead
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FinoCJ
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I am feeling the same....At first I was thinking the journal or the big end of #1 rod was not machined properly and oil clearance wasn't correct....but looking at the 'groove' in the bearings in both the #1 rod and the #1 main, both those grooves are inline with the oil passageways on the crank journals - so guessing some junk or machining debris was left in the crank and flushed out into the bearings. I don't really know how you know for sure.....in some way, the cheap, gambling part of me is thinking that there is nothing wrong with the rod, so maybe I could just swap out the crank for a new one, need to find the appropriate bearings for what I assume would be a different over/undersize combo, and put it back together. Of course, that is running the risk that the metal that has travelled through the system hasn't done any other damage or is stuck somewhere? Its not really feasible to swap a crank with the engine in place (the trans/TC would have to be removed of course), so going to start engine removal....I can ponder on whether I want to gamble and go minimal repair (just the crank), take the rods to a machine shop as well and have inspected, or go with full rebuild, assembled short block etc.....thinking pull the engine and trans/TC together, put the engine on the stand, do some rebuild of the OD unit on the TC that needs attention, and then just let it sit for awhile and think....my brain says a crate engine is the easiest and probably most cost effective solution, but my emotion is that I want to build it myself and have it actually work - and john said, pretty easy to know who screwed it up when you build it yourself. Even if the machine shop messed up something with the rod or crank, I should have caught it......and the dirty crank oil passageway should have been cleaned out. I remember spending a lot of time brushing out the block, but I don't remember doing much with the crank - just wasn't on my radar.
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The other possibility here is that there was a burr left on the crank oil passage orifice but the effect is the same. I have an 87 350 block (one piece rear seal, center bolt heads) that is machined for new pistons/rings already mounted to the rods. I can't remember if the crank was machined under size but it was through the machine shop. The heads were also rebuilt. Whether or not we could find all the rest of the pieces is unknown. It has been a floor space saver in the garage and shop for 15 years.
FinoCJ
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Engine is out along with the 465/18/OD.....
need to pull apart at the bellhousing and get the engine on a stand. Hoping I might be able to save the iron heads, and I have an aluminum intake that I never got put on - that would be to move past the qjet carb and do something more interesting like TBI. So that would mean maybe I can get a ready to go short block....but that also means staying with flat tappet cam and 2 piece RMS etc (these gen1 sbc just are hard to seal up - after 5000 miles the amount of oil seepage everywhere is obnoxioius). Roller cam, vortec heads, 1piece RMS would be nice, but price goes up, both for the long block and for all the additional items to fully finish it like new intake, new flywheel, new bracketry etc...
Think I want to look into the OD - its not shifting correctly. It was a used unit that I didn't rebuild, so it might need some love. I need to order a couple things from AA, so maybe new blocking ring/synchro for the OD as well.
need to pull apart at the bellhousing and get the engine on a stand. Hoping I might be able to save the iron heads, and I have an aluminum intake that I never got put on - that would be to move past the qjet carb and do something more interesting like TBI. So that would mean maybe I can get a ready to go short block....but that also means staying with flat tappet cam and 2 piece RMS etc (these gen1 sbc just are hard to seal up - after 5000 miles the amount of oil seepage everywhere is obnoxioius). Roller cam, vortec heads, 1piece RMS would be nice, but price goes up, both for the long block and for all the additional items to fully finish it like new intake, new flywheel, new bracketry etc...
Think I want to look into the OD - its not shifting correctly. It was a used unit that I didn't rebuild, so it might need some love. I need to order a couple things from AA, so maybe new blocking ring/synchro for the OD as well.
Tralehead
Well Oiled
My curiosity is piqued. I have the iron heads that (I believe) came with the South of the Border SBC crate motor in my rig. I had entertained the idea of replacing them with aluminum heads for weight savings but I'm a firm believer in Murphy's "if it ain't broke..." with the corollary of "Keep it simple..." So I guess I need to learn more about these(?)
I don't seem to have a problem with oil leaking, from anywhere on the drive train; am I doing something wrong? Granted, there's a nice coating under there but I have yet to see any spots on the ground or actual drips on the machinery. And yes, I've checked the levels, all good.
@FinoCJ , you've got a lot of options going on there. I for one will be looking forward to seeing your choices. I am getting a chuckle out of the above picture though. Your set up looks so compact compared to mine with the 6" long AA30 adapter for that Scout 300.
If you get a chance, I wouldn't mind seeing your empty engine bay.
The BIG advantage of aluminum heads is their vastly superior heat dissipation. You can run another whole point of compression on the same gas. But the weight savings is also significant and likewise the fact that there are numerous more available options for the head configuration. I don't anticipate ever building another sbc with iron heads, even Dart iron heads.
Tralehead
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so which ones would you choose for a pretty stock 350? I have an Edelbrock manifold under a FiTech TBI.
FWIW, I looked at the Edlebrock heads but they don't get stellar reviews.
I had the straight plug, 70 cc 60739 Performer rpm Edelbrocks on my 381. Worked fine-zero problems. I needed those big chambers to keep my compression ratio down to 10.5:1. No problem running 87 octane in that but it usually got premium anyway. Those were paired with ProFlo II. If I was doing that again, there is no reason not to go with the angled plugs. I have AFR's Eliminator heads on the current sbc and they are most definitely a much higher class head but they also cost about twice as much. IIRC, the Edelbrocks have 170 cc inlet ports and I stuck with the smaller 195 cc versions of the AFR's.
Part of this discussion is identical to a Jeep build. What are you trying to accomplish? Horsepower is obviously a completely fabricated term with nominal meaning in the real world. Torque where you want it should over-ride all else. Case in point was the 381 in my 3B with a CR of about 34:1 worked way better off road in the rocks than that worthless 3.6 in the JK with its 76:1 CR.
FinoCJ
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I am finding heat dissipation to be more and more important as the heat just collects under the willys hood after the engine is shut off and has nowhere to go - with todays ethanol fuel, it just boils the carb bowl etc. I just saw someone post about some hood louvres the made for a pickup... I am going to try the Ebrock performer aluminum intake I got from john - partially for heat distribution, and mostly because its a dual bore carb pattern so i can run either qjet or square bore TBI. Aluminum heads would be even better, but maybe out of my price point currently.....when I researched heads a few years ago, the AFR stuff looked pretty good to me. You can even get camel hump style aluminum heads - but pricey. Not exactly sure how this is all going to work out - trying not to rush just to get it back on the road but rather try to make it a bit better than it was. It wasn't quite working the way I wanted it to.
feel free to hijack - especially as it relates to building sbc's and components.
I can testify. AFR heads are the shizzle. I built a 385 sbc with 195 AFR's. What a torque monster!
rocket
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I had a big problem with getting the heat out from under the hood of my 62 Cutlass. They are hard to see in the photo, but most of the white stripes on the hood contain two rows of 3" louvers.
Tralehead
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All Greek to me so had to look it up. Yep, good reviews but 2K a pair...
Of course I read that after i pen a lengthy PM to @johnd
The gist of which was I want something lighter and more tug in the 1500-2000 rpm range.
I'm thinking a fender well mounted fan; is that weird or a waste? The other thought was a set of louvers behind the 4wd emblems.
FinoCJ
Well Oiled
The 'budget' AFR enforcer can be bought fully loaded for 1250 a pair flat tappet or roller cam....IIRC that is not a lot more than it cost me to get the 993 iron heads reground and loaded.....All Greek to me so had to look it up. Yep, good reviews but 2K a pair...
Tralehead
Well Oiled
Didn't see those... heck, I was struggling with finding a set of plug wire holders for mine. You have the same exhaust manifolds; any suggestions?The 'budget' AFR enforcer can be bought fully loaded for 1250 a pair flat tappet or roller cam....IIRC that is not a lot more than it cost me to get the 993 iron heads reground and loaded.....
Am looking forward to SBC discussion around a campfire...
Yep. I could pull that engine down to 300 rpms crawling over stuff and it still kept going in all but the most gnarly situations. It still was running 45 psi oil pressure doing that but it had a high volume big block pump that no doubt ran against the relief most of the time. But gas well wasted. I couldn't do that in the present engine with the steel cam and composite distributor gear-it wouldn't end well.
James, if you can do a roller cam, DO IT. So many more options for cam profiles, especially if looking for low overlap, high lift cams for building low end torque. The cam in the present 3B engine almost has rectangular lobes. And as your above post, quality loaded aluminum heads are relatively cheap these days.
You can make the wire holders pretty easily.
These are the reworked version from the 381 and just utilize Taylor wire separators with longer screws.
Turned out I didn't need the valve cover spacers with the higher rails on the AFR heads on the last go-around so those were adapted with a simple aluminum L mount off the valve cover bolts-similar to the stock arrangement. Center bolt covers obviously will need something more sophisticated.
FinoCJ
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I like the ramshorn exhaust manifolds....they flow well and look great. Sure they are a smidge heavier than tube headers, but I didn't like the block hugger headers I initially had on it - they get so hot its hard to keep them from trashing whatever coating you put on them. The ramshorns I used were salvaged and a bit rough, so i had them ceramic coated. You can buy new aftermark reproductions:
ramshorn exhaust manifolds - Google Search
www.google.com
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FinoCJ
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yup...but that basically means I am scrapping the entire existing engine and starting totally fresh - which I am not totally against, but still determining. There are 'retro-fit' roller cam kits for 1st gen sbc - the tricky part is something about a front camshaft 'button' to hold the cam in place, and I am still trying see if that means all new components in the heads beyond just the pushrods or what not. In terms of cam profile options, I don't really need anything special - standard flat tappet cam options are fine for me (maybe and 'RV' style cam), but its more about getting it through break in issues. Short duration (low overlap) but high lift (relatively speaking) is usually good for lower rpm, higher torque performance.... I have been assuming I am going to need to replace the existing cam and cam bearings at this point, but maybe not? Guess that is risky....a lot to figure out yet again....is it worth my chatting with McGinley? I feel like he's building stuff above my performance interest and beyond my budget.
Flat tappet cam lobes have a slight angle ground into the lobes to cause the lifters to rotate and it also holds the cam in the block. Roller cams have no such provision. Factory roller blocks use a camshaft retaining plate. As you know, Gen 1 sbc have no provision for such a plate. So, a cam button is used to provide moderate pressure between the timing cover and camshaft to hold the roller cam in place.
One other roller tidbit. Roller cams are made from steel. Flat tappet cams are cast iron. Flat tappet distributor gears are not compatible with steel cams. In the prehistoric days, bronze distributor gears were used to save the billet cams at the expense of a consumable distributor gear. Now, thr major cam manufacturers offer melonized cam gears that are compatible with standard distributor gears.
James, I assume you know that much of your valvetrain would get changed when switching from flat tappet to roller. Roller lobes are too fast or aggressive for flat tappet valve springs which often means different retainers and keepers.
Mission creep.