Fino's ‘58 Wagon

Thanks for the thoughts....I can be indecisive (or wishy-washy as my wife says), so sometimes I it really helps me to voice my idea and then hear the responses. Obviously, sometimes those suggestions lead to something new ad better, but sometimes its more that I recognize that someone else's method is not the way I want to do it, and it helps 'solidify' or reinforce in my head how I want to do it (even if its not the generally preferred method or CW or whatnot. We each build our jeeps in the way we each individually want - regardless of whether its practical or makes sense to anyone else - so I probably won't follow all the great suggestions :p

What this discussion did for me is solidify that I am more than happy to run with the stock axles and stock gearing for now....get it on the road and see how things go with the sbc and sm465 and 30" tires etc. If highway cruising at 60mph is just untenable, then I'll be able to justify dropping the coin for an OD. If it is not too bad, then I would much prefer to spend that money on some replacement lift springs and upsize the tires just a bit, which will help with cruising rpm a little. I think 4.27 gears is just about right for a 33" tire, so I don't want to mess with that. If at some point, I blow up an axle, we'll deal with then, and I'll have some mileage on the odometer to make a more informed decision about gearing if needed.


yup...I did that here - well I thought I was going to link to it in my build thread, but guess I never added it....I keep most of my cj build stuff on the earlycj5 forum so I don't have much about it here on OWF.
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On the street and highway, I used the OD as basically a 4th gear as well....but off road, I use it as a gear splitter to help find just the right wheel speed for whatever obstacle or trail section is needed. Basically, '1 and a half'' is often just about perfect when you need just a bit of wheel speed and crawling in 1st isn't quite enough momentum. But I don't know about that 3.58 1st gear....I am worried its going to be a bit too low for optimum street use.

Warning - going to geek out here a bit, but this is the kind of stuff I like to think about. Much like people discuss crawl ratio, we had a big discussion on ecj5 about 'start-off' ratio when at a red light or whatnot. Currently, in the cj5, I have a start off ratio with 3.1 1st gear and 4.88 gears of just over 15 (3.1 times 4.88 with D18 in 1:1 high range). Even with 33s, I find that a bit too low (numerically too high). Although I don't do it much, I prefer to 'start-off' in 1st gear + OD (just over 11 when factoring in the 75% OD) to get rolling a bit faster before shifting into 2nd (and to keep the person behind my from slamming up my tailpipe when I go to shift). That can be a bit too high of gearing for comfortable starting on uphills, but kind of tells me something between 12 and 15 is a good range (again with 33s and pretty lightweight cj5). I found the 58 wagon did nicely with the the t90j (2.79 times 4.27) at 11.9, but it was running smaller 30 tires. Going to the sm465, its going to be a start off ratio of 15.3, so more like my cj, but with the small 30" tires, I think its going to be too low - but yes, once I upsize the tires, it will help, and the wagon is a bit heavier. I am excited to drop the 4:1 T18 I have sitting in the garage into the cj5 one day - the low gear of 4:1 isn't the sought after 6.32:1 of the wide ratio T18, but for street driving, gears 1-3 have really nice splits. The 2.41 first gear with 4.88s yields a start-off ratio of 11.8, which I think is going to be perfect for that jeep, and the 4:1 low gear is fine as I already have tera low gears in the D18 - so the CR will be just over 60.
I think all your geeking with numbers just proved what I was trying to convince you of. 3.58-1, 4.27 gears with 32" tires will give you that nice start off ratio.
As an example, the tired stakebed has trouble starting off with 2.79-1 and 4.88 gears with 30.9" tall tires. You will also have the advantage of more start off torque with that 350.

You really should add in tire diameter or circumference for your start off ratio.
 
You really should add in tire diameter or circumference for your start off ratio.
its not 'my' calculation - its just the standard way to calculate crawl ratio, but with the TC in high range, it has no affect. And yes, whether it be used as CR calculation or for my attempt to quantify the start off capability, it does not factor in tire size. For CR, the tire size does matter....For those with 30-31, a CR of 45-50 is quite functional, but with 33s, its better to get it up to 60+, and for those JKs running 37-39s, 90 is the number. All I know, is my cj with bigger tires and less start off ratio is too low...the wagon will be even lower geared at start off, and with smaller tires, so way too low.
 
Steering is finalized, brake MC and lines (with a bit of re-bending) are back in and bled. Starting to come together....
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I didn't paint the aluminum bellhousing, but wondering if I should have...Flywheel, clutch, pilot bearing, fork and TO bearing are all in under the bellhousing and I can go to bed now after midnight and sleep well knowing the input shaft is threaded through. I almost forgot I had to make some minor modifications to the clutch fork before install as I intend to use a pull cable to activate, and the generic sbc forks are set-up for a push linkage - So I drilled a little hole and slot to fit the cable end/adjuster nut thingy. D18 is next, as well as the mini starter motor which may need some clocking. And I am still fighting some issues with the top cover on the sm465, but hope to get that figured out tomorrow. Maybe I might even think about trying to setting it all into the wagon on the mounts. I still have a clutch cable bracket for the D18 to modify or fab. I leave Tues for a bit, and it would be awesome to at least have it bolted in on the mounts and cross-member in....
 
About ready to drop everything into the wagon...D18 is on, got the 465 top cover taken care of...
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still figuring out the clutch cable set up...
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Traveling out of town again, so it'll be a bit longer before moving forward
Fino. I'm about to marry my 465/D18 to my V6 Dauntless. I have a single stick D18 which will increase my headaches because the mount was attached to my old T86 trans adapter. But my question is could you not use AA's chain clutch linkage?
 
Super cheap...errrrr frugal, is to thoroughly wash block with
dish soap. A designed grease cutter. Just clean your hands with it and you will believe. Remove all the oil galley plugs. Buy a oil galley brush kit. Scrub and rinse all oil galleys and oil journals in the crank.
Decide which rings you want to use. Buy a hone that matches the rings. Hone with ATF just until you see crosshatch lines. Hand polish crank, removing as little as possible. Remember, you will not be able to evenly sand all 360°of crank journals. So, just enough to remove any nicks. Assemble with old bearings. Check clearances with Plastigage. New oil pump, rings, cam, lifters, timing set, etc.

Hope and pray. Light a candle at church. Sacrifice a goat before first startup.

Oh, add break in additive.

Double, double and then check again your static distributor timing. You have any idea how many new cams have been destroyed by wrong ign timing and the engine would not start?

Fill carb via vent tube so literally engine starts on first crank. Hold rpm for 2000 to 2500 for 20-30 minutes. Many cooling systems can't handle that. A box fan in front of the radiator helps.
I have sheep. Will they work?
 
Fino. I'm about to marry my 465/D18 to my V6 Dauntless. I have a single stick D18 which will increase my headaches because the mount was attached to my old T86 trans adapter. But my question is could you not use AA's chain clutch linkage?
Yes the AA chain clutch is an option. I have OEM long cable clutch setup on my 70 cj5, and it's good for me. Some people hate them, but some (like me) like them. The typical Omix/crown replacement cable are junk and break, but once I went the quality cable from inline tube, it's all good. I am test fitting this one with my spare parts for the cj...if it doesn't work, the AA chain will be option two.
 
Todays fun....
Was trying to prime the oil pump and flow oil up to the rockers today with my priming tool...its the cheapo one I bought for the 225v6 a few years ago (and it worked great), and I was certain it was advertised as also functional for the the sbcv8 (after some review - yes its advertised for the sbc and bbc as well - but a lot of complaints!).
Anyway, the driver side valve train primed nicely, but the passenger side was nothing, not an effing drop....so I did all the things you do like turn the crank a bit, run the primer drill for long time, run it at high and low speeds, and then basically freak out that something is really screwed up and some oil galley passageway is blocked and am going to have to disassemble the engine.
But then some internet research indicates that the generic cheapo priming tool has some sort of design flaw that doesn't work with the sbc set-up....the lower 'bushing' does not match the distributor, and blocks the passenger side oil galley at the pump, or something like that....So I cannibalized the useless HEI that came with the used engine and made my own tool....
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You can see the difference in the lower bushing - the blue cheap tool has the bushing higher up the shaft, and the groove between the two ridges is much wider. I welded a hex nut on the end of the 1/2" shaft to make it easier to spin, and my 1/2" drill is big and heavy, and I have very limited space up against the firewall. I am hoping I will be able to spin it with my air ratchet once its installed. Its not really necessary, but I'd like to have the lower end a bit more finished with the 'over' sleeve or collar that goes around the flathead end to help it stay stable on the pump groove. Might have to cannibalize the distributor gear, but would have to either cut off the tooth section, or grind them off in some way (without a mill or lathe).
Of course, I spent way too much time doing all this, and haven't even tried the new tool - do it tomorrow, I am pretty confident its going to work just fine.
 
Todays fun....
Was trying to prime the oil pump and flow oil up to the rockers today with my priming tool...its the cheapo one I bought for the 225v6 a few years ago (and it worked great), and I was certain it was advertised as also functional for the the sbcv8 (after some review - yes its advertised for the sbc and bbc as well - but a lot of complaints!).
Anyway, the driver side valve train primed nicely, but the passenger side was nothing, not an effing drop....so I did all the things you do like turn the crank a bit, run the primer drill for long time, run it at high and low speeds, and then basically freak out that something is really screwed up and some oil galley passageway is blocked and am going to have to disassemble the engine.
But then some internet research indicates that the generic cheapo priming tool has some sort of design flaw that doesn't work with the sbc set-up....the lower 'bushing' does not match the distributor, and blocks the passenger side oil galley at the pump, or something like that....So I cannibalized the useless HEI that came with the used engine and made my own tool....
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You can see the difference in the lower bushing - the blue cheap tool has the bushing higher up the shaft, and the groove between the two ridges is much wider. I welded a hex nut on the end of the 1/2" shaft to make it easier to spin, and my 1/2" drill is big and heavy, and I have very limited space up against the firewall. I am hoping I will be able to spin it with my air ratchet once its installed. Its not really necessary, but I'd like to have the lower end a bit more finished with the 'over' sleeve or collar that goes around the flathead end to help it stay stable on the pump groove. Might have to cannibalize the distributor gear, but would have to either cut off the tooth section, or grind them off in some way (without a mill or lathe).
Of course, I spent way too much time doing all this, and haven't even tried the new tool - do it tomorrow, I am pretty confident its going to work just fine.
You are correct sir, in your assumptions.
 
The sbc350/sm465/D18 combo is in...cross-member mounting went pretty well. Starting to work on finalizing some of the accessories, lines hoses etc....on the alternator belt, I don't know if I like this routing with the belt going around the crank and then up to the alternator and water pump....I could run the alt only from the wp (the wp would be driven by the ps belt), but it might not matter either way
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And the behemoth 465 protruding up through the floorboard....the random GM truck shifter that came with it (used CL buy) is functional enough for now. Its a bit close to the right leg but it will work for now - sometime later I can work on bending it more to the center. There is just enough room to get my foot to the gas pedal with the modified brake pedal....floorboard tunnel cover work is much further down the line, although I may have to expand the D18 shifter pin access/removal hole upwards. The D18 is in the same fore-aft and left-right position, but 1/2" higher than it was in stock configuration.
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There have been 2 expected things that I never really figured out ahead of time: the clutch activation/linkage and the battery location.
I 'think' I got the clutch sorted with a cable set-up similar to the late v6 cj5 long cables....I had to make a little angle bracket to anchor the pedal end of the sleeve:
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The bracket mounts to the inside of the frame rail (on the cj5 its outside the frame rail), and I am using an OEM bracket that mounts to the D18, although it would originally been on a large case D18, so I had to use some spacers and 'finagle' it a little bit on the small case D18:
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At the clutch fork end, I had to add a bit of threaded rod to lengthen it a few inches, and used cj5 style adjuster nut to connect into the fork...I also had previously drilled out the fork to fit the adjuster nut. The angle of this pic makes the cable look poorly aligned, but its really pretty decent as you an see in the previous picture.
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So, still need to finalize this, paint the bracket, add jam nuts, add return springs....the pedal feels very smooth and easy, but I may still need to shorten a bit more. I'd like to have someone work the pedal while I can be under there watching, but everything looks like it will clear, but it is tight. Something about how the pedal feels is worrying me, but its hard to explain. I guess I'd like to feel a bit more definitive change in resistance when the T/O bearing pushes the diaphragm fingers.

So, even though I did a bunch of test fitting, this is my first attempt at something like this, and finding some stuff I missed planning for etc. So current thoughts - I wish the entire drivetrain was pushed toward the passenger side just an inch or so from where it is now. Currently, the engine is shifted 1-1.5 inches towards the driver side - this gave a bit more clearance from the front passenger differential and driveshaft, but it also complicates things around the through the floor pedals and clutch fork as well as the battery mounting. The mistake I am recognizing I made is I might have pushed things a bit too far driver side, as the huge sm465 is easy to get pushed too far into the driver floorboard affecting access to the pedals (which I figured out a bit ago), as well as the end of the clutch fork can interfere with the lower end of the brake pedal (this I am just recognizing and while I think its going to clear, its tight!), and at some point, the exhaust will have to find a way through and under the area as well. If the engine were shifted an inch or to the right from where it currently sits (essentially putting it right down the middle), there would be a bit more room in and around and under the driver side floorboard, more room to mount the batter on the driver side firewall, and I don't think the front driveshaft would be that big of an issue as the D18 would also get pushed to the right. The front diff to oil pan, as well as driveshaft to starter would be concerns, but I think it would be fine, and the extra little bit of space on the drive side would be helpful.
 
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You have wrapped your belts correctly. 180° wrap on crank and alt pulley will ensure no belt slippage when heavy charging. 180° wrap on PS pulley too. Water pump has 90° wrap but that should be okay.
 
A little more progress...fabricating anything is always an adventure for me....
Made a battery tray (well just tacked into shape)....The space is pretty tight so I didn't trust I could fit any generic purchased tray so a custom job it is...I believe this the OEM location for the battery tray anyway as there is some extra support on the firewall which I was happy to use - although I had to push things a bit more towards the driver side to clear the v8, and am using a small size 24 battery. The upper driver side mount uses what I think is an original mount hole with additional bracing support behind it (although I've never really looked at what the original battery mount was). Good backing fender washers should provide enough support for the other stuff. Will now have to find a new place to mount the brake reservoirs - probably on the inside of the fender behind the fenderwell where there is a bracing channel with nice vertical surface.
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A little more progress...fabricating anything is always an adventure for me....
Made a battery tray (well just tacked into shape)....The space is pretty tight so I didn't trust I could fit any generic purchased tray so a custom job it is...I believe this the OEM location for the battery tray anyway as there is some extra support on the firewall which I was happy to use - although I had to push things a bit more towards the driver side to clear the v8, and am using a small size 24 battery. The upper driver side mount uses what I think is an original mount hole with additional bracing support behind it (although I've never really looked at what the original battery mount was). Good backing fender washers should provide enough support for the other stuff. Will now have to find a new place to mount the brake reservoirs - probably on the inside of the fender behind the fenderwell where there is a bracing channel with nice vertical surface.
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When you modify one thing, three more need to follow.
 
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Making progress....I am on a tight schedule and running out of time to get this running before leave for winter work....
installed 4 new shocks:
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These are not quite as large a diameter as most of the standard 'off-road' aftermarket shocks like Rancho etc - These are more like 2" diameter instead of 2.5", and it gives nice clearance from the front axle. On the cj, the wider body aftermarket shocks won't fit on the front unless I flip then upside down or I think a lot of you move the shock mount. The steering stops also beat the heck out them as well - but on the wider track wagon, that shouldn't be an issue. The cheap Gabriel Ultra shocks I put on the front of the cj at some point (older but probably better RCs on the rear) worked fine for 5 years, but are pretty much toast at this point - possibly due more to the physical abuse to the the shock body from axle contact than anything else, but will probably upgrade to higher quality shock for the cj soon. But for the wagon, if these match the Gabriel, that will be fine (and cheaper) - didn't want to spend a fortune on shocks and then possibly have to replace them if suspension lift is added. Although these are cheap Monroe shocks - they are made in the USA - says so on both the box and the shock body...
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Then with good weather, it was time to paint the the inside of the front fenders. They were filthy, greasy, rusty and kind of ugly - they still have some of the original red/maroon color, but they also had some grey paint sprayed on the top of the fenders. Both fenders had a bit of rust pitting developing, and the passenger fender had an ugly mess of battery acid leakage and corrosion under where the battery had been relocated that ate away all the paint. Since I repainted the firewall, figured it was time to paint these to match before they go back on. There is a part of me that kind of didn't want to cover up the original red and to leave it as homage to its origins, as well as the sort of 'it may look a bit rough, but what really matters is how it runs' theme. The driver side would probably have been fine to leave as was, but the passenger side needed to be redone completely.

None of this is a quality paint job - just a good soapy hose and brush cleaning, a little sanding and scuffing and some rattle can, nothing more. The exterior paint isn't quality, and the underside and overlapping mounting surfaces aren't the best, but just cleaned up and will use as is - maybe one day it will get proper body work. This is just enough to make the engine compartment look reasonable (maybe). When I painted the firewall, I ended up with a paint that is too 'silvery' and light - I kind of wanted it to be just a bit darker grey, but once the firewall was done, then these need to match. Anything is better than what was there....

The fenders after a good soapy cleaning:
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After painting....
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Next, with the new PS mounting and engine location etc, I needed a new power steering hose as the old one was way too long, and I also needed to shorten and re-bend the hard line on the pump end (not to mention it seemed to want to kink more than bend when I was messing with it). It was a bit of an adventure - got to see some of Denver that I had never seen before - but found a local shop that makes hydraulic hoses etc. I don't think they usually custom bend hard line for customers - mostly just re-use the existing stuff - but the old timer was kind of interested in my project and decided to spend a bit of extra time working out some solutions. I think I paid a bit dear price ($80 for some hose, 2 fittings and some custom modification), but considering I hadn't had much luck elsewhere, and I walked in and 30 min later I walked out with exactly what I needed, and had helpful service with some expertise and concern to help me out with a bit of custom work, it was a good deal.

So if anyone needs some custom hydraulic lines done in the front range of Colo (they also do all sorts of brake lines, air lines etc), check out Whistler Bearing (Whisler Bearing Co.). Next time, I'll know to get the fittings and straight hard line from them first, and then take it home to bend exactly how I want (although its pretty large diameter line and not so easy to bend), and then return to the shop with the measurement for length of hose needed, and clocking of fittings.
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Continuing on....4 new ujoints into the driveshafts.
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And finally, is there any pic to represent many hours upside down, in and out of the cab, under and around the jeep on all sides getting the wiring all in place? Maybe no more wires hanging from under the dash? Its not super pretty up under there, but since I didn't start from scratch, I sort of letting some of it be as it was, although I cleaned up a little bit of it, especially around the ignition switch and headlight switch. Mostly there were a few 'add-in' wires to get power for other things, so I removed those, added an ACC post on the firewall to connect that stuff to. Everything under the dash is still running inline fuses, but at some point, I'd like to set up 2 fuse boxes (Batt and ACC) like I did the in cj...but this will work for now. The column used the GM style flat 'harmonica' connector for the turn signals, hazards, horn, but its pretty simple as there is no ignition switch in the column - I moved that to the dash awhile ago. The only thing that was a bit goofy, and I didn't change it, was there are two separate circuits for the turn signals and hazards - each circuit with its own flasher canister....In the end, I decided it was nice and simple, and I could power the signals with ACC and the hazards with Batt. I like electrical stuff in terms of getting it organized and clean....but I'd much rather do it upright on the bench!
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As for the engine side, that is a lot more from scratch, so really trying to make it clean and neat....ignore the parking brake cable that is not routed yet. The ignition, starter, charging and ground stuff is essentially done. The section of the harness that goes to the exterior accessories (lights and electric fan) will be done once the fender is back on (which is hopefully tomorrow morning).
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The flywheel dust cover came in today from 4speed Conversions...fit perfectly....but the 4th bolt that holds it in is hard to get at behind the oil filter, so it may wait until the first oil change after break in...of course, that is the bolt that holds my little bracket for the clutch fork return spring. It will be fine for break-in with just the pedal return spring I think.
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Also wanted to switch the primary jets in the qjet back to the OEM 71s...I swapped them down to 69s a couple years ago for the 283, but time to go back up with the 350 application. The carb number indicates its from a 1969 350 with auto (as is the intake) with 71 jets (and that is what I found in it when I got it). Given the primaries also have rods (49B) in them, the size of the jets is maybe less important than in something like the 2g, but definitely don't want it running lean when I get it started up. We'll see how the plugs look after a bit. I also found the accelerator pump cup (which I changed a couple years ago) was torn - nothing likes the ethanol I guess. I ordered a new cup kit from Mikes, and it came with a single lip cup and garter spring whereas I think historically the qjet didn't run a spring - and the previous rebuild kit from Mike's came with the double lip cup (which tore) and no spring. Anyway, a bit of research from Cliffs and Quadrajet Parts also show both cups on their website and suggest the new style with the spring is the best option. Unfortunately, I had a lot of difficulty with the spring not wanting to stay in the new cup...I actually ended up using another cup I had in my collection that is the correct diameter measurements and seems to hold the spring in....arghhh, stupid fiddly stuff shouldn't be this difficult (seems like just low quality parts) that can cause bigger issues. I wanted a new A-pump with cup and all to install as one, but neither Mike's nor Quadrajet parts had one....If Cliffs has one, I'll order one for the collection. If it gives me any trouble, its coming off for more work right off the bat.
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This is the only q-jet I've run, and I haven't run it all that much. I can't say that I know a ton about them, or that I even love them... they definitely are very adaptable and adjustable, but I guess that can make them seem fiddly and overly complicated to some. It came swapped on to the 283 that was in the wagon (along with the intake), and it seems good (or well, cost effective) to just keep using it. I probably run on the small primaries 90% of the time. The biggest issue I have is with the accel pump and hard starting when warm....hoping this new pump cup set-up will help, and I may also need to see if the check ball under this is set in place properly.
 
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