F-134 Header Options

ndnile

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#1
Today I picked up this ex-USMC M170 Ambulance jeep. It will retain its military roots, but I already know I want an overdrive so I can do more “driving to” and less “towing to”. It runs strong, but it’s still just 72HP max. I would love to give the OD a few more bolt-on ponies to work with and a header looks like the lowest hanging fruit. Clifford performance has a header for it for $400 and claims a (optimistic??) 20% performance gain. Price seems a bit steep. Are there any more vendors out there selling F-134 headers?
 

Bill Kuran

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#2
Today I picked up this ex-USMC M170 Ambulance jeep. It will retain its military roots, but I already know I want an overdrive so I can do more “driving to” and less “towing to”. It runs strong, but it’s still just 72HP max. I would love to give the OD a few more bolt-on ponies to work with and a header looks like the lowest hanging fruit. Clifford performance has a header for it for $400 and claims a (optimistic??) 20% performance gain. Price seems a bit steep. Are there any more vendors out there selling F-134 headers?
Headers can improve performance but I am struggling with Clifford's claim of 20 percent. That's nearly 15 HP but about 1/3 of that is lost on it way to the rear wheels. It would be interesting to hear their response to your request to share the dyno test result, including how the engine was prepared for the test. Aside from performance improvement I happen to think there is a huge cool factor associated with a header. The cool factor plus "it probably won't make it worse" would be enough for me to do it. Installing a header may require part of the stock exhaust system to be changed too.

If possible put your M170 on a chassis dyno before installing the header and again afterwards.

If you do want more power (who doesn't?), along with the header, look into a different carburetor and ignition system. I don't know much about the F-134 but I do know what my L6-226 likes. There are several OWF members that have made F-134 fuel and ignition modifications.

These power struggles can quickly get very costly. Let's say you spend $500 for 10 hp - that's $50/hp. Not too bad but the cost is not linear. If you want an additional 50 hp the cost may increase to $100/hp. 100 hp may have a price of $200/hp. My 226 has about 250% more power than when delivered from the factory but none of my kids was able to go to college, my wife has a second job and my house has three mortgages:cool:.

So, if you can afford it, do it! I've only seen an F-134 header available from CP.
 

ndnile

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#3
These power struggles can quickly get very costly. Let's say you spend $500 for 10 hp - that's $50/hp. Not too bad but the cost is not linear. If you want an additional 50 hp the cost may increase to $100/hp. 100 hp may have a price of $200/hp. My 226 has about 250% more power than when delivered from the factory but none of my kids was able to go to college, my wife has a second job and my house has three mortgages
Bill, your L6-226 project is worthy of a doctoral thesis and has cemented your spot in Willys folklore to infinity and beyond. A millennia from now a guy with the last serviceable L6-226 block will be referencing your material as he considers using it as a means to hot-rod the used Millennium Falcon he just pick up off Craigs List.

Aside from a lack of implementation talent and the contacts for a dyno, etc, I can't/won't afford to be on the cutting edge of engine performance analysis and development. My dyno will be noting my speed at the top of a long grade. My heart is there, my curiosity is there, but it's said that a man needs to know his limitations, and my $$ has already been committed to a couple universities and to what I call the "The Foriegn Marriage Penalty Tax". The FMPT is the costs incurred with my wife going home twice a year to Europe to see her family. She has a touch of claustrophobia, so she doesn't travel economy and she works for a school district, so she doesn't travel on the shoulder seasons either. Net-net is that I'm frugal by necessity.

Header(s) - I may bite the bullet on this $400, but it does gall me a bit that SBC V8 headers are available for as little as $150 for a set and seem to go for a median price of about $250. That's $75-$125 per header. CP want's that per cylinder and I find that an unreasonable premium, so as much out of principle as anything, I'm shy of doing this. Options are few, so it may happen. I will reach out to CP and see what I can discover.

Carb - I could easily be convinced to do this. Falcon 6cyl carb?

Ignition - This rig is still 24volt which I think complicates doing this upgrade.

Cheers, Doug
 
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ndnile

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#5
I got a response from Clifford Performance. While stating that they don’t use a dyno to back up their header performace gain claims, they doubled down on it. Now it is a 30% gain. They also make it sound near trivial to double the HP. Who knew.


We never use dyno for anything around here. The weber will add a minimum of 20% and the headers will add 30%.
I can grind your cam to add a lot of torque as well.

Mill your cylinder head .060 and polish the tops of the valves for even more torque.

These engines are really very good when these upgrades are added. It will at least double.
Thank you
Larry 6=8”
 
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Bill Kuran

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#6
I got a response from Clifford Performance. While stating that they don’t use a dyno to back up their header performace gain claims, they doubled down on it. Now it is a 30% gain. They also make it sound near trivial to double the HP. Who knew.

We never use dyno for anything around here. The weber will add a minimum of 20% and the headers will add 30%.
I can grind your cam to add a lot of torque as well.

Mill your cylinder head .060 and polish the tops of the valves for even more torque.

These engines are really very good when these upgrades are added. It will at least double.
Thank you
Larry 6=8”
I agree the F-134 is a great engine but my BS meter is pegged - WTF!

I think I'm going to be sick....I just wasted a whole lot of time and money on all the silly work I did when a simple call to CP was the only thing necessary.
 

ndnile

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#7
I agree the F-134 is a great engine but my BS meter is pegged - WTF!

I think I'm going to be sick....I just wasted a whole lot of time and money on all the silly work I did when a simple call to CP was the only thing necessary.
Bill, there is a fundamental difference here. I believe your data.
 
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#8
Wanna keep that little 134?????????? Turbo..........Like they put on the 4 cylinder Thunderbirds about 30 years ago... Easy on the drive train,
lots of top end..............
 
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#9
Keep in mind that any internal combustion engine is an air pump. The more efficiently air moves in and out the more power it will produce. Also it takes fuel atomized in an efficient manner and a strong spark to light it off.

Now that you are making more power how do you plan on utilizing it. Gear bound vehicles like ours were designed that way because that was the best way to use the available horse power. If you're trucks top end is say 50 mph,limited by the max rpm of the engine, you're new top end will still be the same with more horsepower. You may reach that speed faster with more power but that's it. By adding over drive yes you will be able to utilize the added power and go slightly faster but you also create other issues such as stopping and handling.

It's the nature of the beasts that we all love. Go for it and good luck!
 
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