Why does my Willys wagon hate to go backwards?

Olyrider

Bigger Hammer
Dec 12, 2016
100
Tacoma
First Name
Paul
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1949
'49 wagon with '53 Ford 215 straight-six.

Newly rebuilt T-90 with new Overdrive. Both done by Herm the Overdrive Guy.

New clutch throw-out bearing and fairly new pressure plate.

New transmission/overdrive seem to be working well, with the exception of reverse. The wagon shudders, shimmies, shakes and bunny-hops as it tries to back up. Doesn't matter if the Overdrive is engaged or not. Feathering the clutch seems to make no difference. The forward gears work great, although 2nd gear loves to grind both up AND down if I don't keep the engine revs up.

Something obvious jump out as a potential problem to address?

(Besides head-in parking where I would HAVE to back out.) ;-)
 
The T90 trans is synchronized in 2nd and 3rd and should not grind. First I would make darn sure the clutch if fully disengaging when you push the pedal to the floor. Try adjustment first. Good Luck
 
You didn't mention that the flywheel was resurfaced.. If starting out in 2nd does the same thing.....Pull the flywheel
and have it turned..... My clutch started to chatter at times, when I changed from 5.38 to 4.88 axle gears.. Having
the flywheel resurfaced was the cure.
 
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I don't know if the flywheel has been re-surfaced. But starting in 2nd gear doesn't create any drama any all.

As far as clutch adjustment goes, my test is how it behaves on an uphill when I put the trainee in first gear and disengage the clutch. In my case, sitting on a relatively steep incline, with a chock behind one of the rear wheels, IU shift into first gear and leave the clutch pedal pinned to the floor. Then I begin to ease off the clutch pedal until the engine begins to stall. On my wagon, the engine doesn't begin stalling until the clutch pedal is halfway out. So that is where the clutch begins engaging. That position seems "normal" to me.

Yes the transmission bolts are tight. We used a torque wrench. And checked them twice. Because that was an issue many years ago when the dealer installed a new transmission in my 240Z. I left the dealer lot after picking up the car, and the rattles both sounded and felt like the car was falling apart. Drove around the car right back to the shop. They had not tightened the bolts after installing the new gearbox. They told me "Don't worry. THAT couldn't possibly create any damage to your vehicle. We will tighten them and you can go. Goodbye."

As far as the brakes go, the wagon coasts easily on level surfaces when the transmission is in neutral. So I'm assuming, based on this alone, that the brakes aren't stuck.
 
Paul
I said transmission MOUNTS, not the bolts that hold the transmission on the bell housing. Just making sure. No offense.
By the way, is this Jeep a 2wd or 4wd? What kind of shape are your front motor mounts in? I see you have the Ford 6, so there must be something home made for motor mounts? And, my post yesterday was supposed to say Ebrake too tight? I messed up that one. Also Eric was right to mention the 2nd gear grinding also. Good luck
diggerG
 
Sorry, Digger!!! I should have included a Smiley! :cheers:

Your post didn't offend me at all. See what the internet does?!

I didn't process the word "mounts" as being different from "bolts". I'll check them tonight. The shop that removed/replaced the trannie after Herm rebuilt it has shown itself to be capable of many different types of mistakes. :(

While the trannie was out, I took the time to clean the grease off, sand, clean with a wire wheel, prime and paint the cross member. I even took it to a friend's cycle shop and heard it with his torch to remove a couple of rock dents. So even it it isn't on tight, it sure is looking good!:D

My e-brake isn't attached at the present. When the muffler shop built a new system for me late last year, they put in different bends that interfere with the correct path for the e-brake. So, for the time being, I travel with a couple of chocks in the back.

My wagon is 4WD.

As far as the motor mounts go, the P.O. that installed the Ford 215 motor used "old-growth" 2x4 for shims. He/she could have saved some money using the less-expensive "second-growth" but they went for the good wood. Not kidding. :( An old mechanic that seems to be familiar with these things told me a while back that I didn't have to address that right away. Guess I should move it up the list? :D

Paul
 
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I would watch what the clutch linkage does while torquing (slipping the clutch) in reverse, maybe backwards against your chocks. You may see some crazy geometry/movement when the mounts flex, especially if there is some rubber in addition to the timber. A two-person job unless you can jump out REAL fast to look.
 
I doubt I was ever that fast!

But I did check the transmission mounts an hour ago, and they seem to be tight. While looking under there, I noticed the speedo had not been re-attached by the shop. The connector was there dangling in plain sight. Reinforces my opinion about this particular shop. They had two mechanics and the shop owner under there trying to get thing put back together and me out of their life. They raced through in record time since the wagon had just been sitting there for almost three weeks.
 
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Not just to see if they are tight, but how things flex and move when backing up. You might see something moving farther than you would expect, from the torque.
 
That sounds like great advice!

Since it will take "two" people, I will make sure the second is a great mechanic and I'll slip the clutch.

Thanks, Martisan!!
 
Paul,
I've used my cell phone as a remote set of eyes (and ears) for one-man undercarriage troubleshooting.

Mount the phone with the camera aimed at the suspect subject, and activate the video record feature. Securing the phone so that it is pointed the right way can be a challenge. I've got one of those "Otter" brand belt clip systems that the phone snaps into. I've had good success duct-taping/bailing wiring that clip into position.

Once you've gathered a few videos, it helps to download the results to your PC for larger-screen viewing. Tip: Run a few tests so that you'll know which way to mount the phone so that you can ultimately view the video results "right-side up".

(Disclaimer: Don't lose your phone, and don't run it over!)
Rear brakes working ok? (e-)Brake too tight?
Click to expand...
(diggerG)

Chock the front wheels, put the rear end up on jack stands, the transmission and/or transfer case in neutral, and spin the rear wheels by hand. Make sure the brakes are not dragging in forward or in reverse rotation.





 
martisan said:
Not just to see if they are tight, but how things flex and move when backing up. You might see something moving farther than you would expect, from the torque.
Click to expand...


Martisan and I are thinking alike. My wife had a comment about that, I'll leave that alone!
diggerG
 
Now that we all know WHO installed the transmission, I think possibly the installer could have jammed up the synchros (out of place) by accident. That will cause the 2 and 3 shifting to be "off" and only get worse. I bet Herm wired the trans output in tight so that would not happen, as long as the installer was aware of what that was for. Hate to be the bearer of bad news..... sorry.
diggerG
 
Maybe another obvious question... what kind of lub in the box?
 
Sorry...away for a few days. Thanks for the continued questions and comments!

Digger...not sure what you mean? Herm, and his son Adam, didn't give me any instructions or info to pass on to the shop doing the re-install. And I'm CERTAIN that they had zero knowledge or experience to guide them. Heck, I had to install the Overdrive cane myself in their parking lot because, with the photo instructions in hand, they couldn't sort it out. So what am I looking for in particular when you mention a precaution Herm might have taken that they probably ignored? Because I can assure you their only focus was the nuts & bolts attaching the T-90 to the cross members.

As far as transmission oil, Herm was quite specific about exactly what to use. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I bought what he recommended.

Finally, the wagon behaved exactly the same before all the transmission work. I just figured all the shimmying and shaking would go away $2,000 later. But it didn't. ��

Right now, the wagon sits in a neighbor's driveway minus its rusty old fuel tank. I was going to do a quick removal/replace last Friday, but the sending unit turned out to be faulty. The gauge always read empty. At least one source of the problem is there are only 10 ohms at Empty and Full. And...the float had two pinholes so it was full of gas. I practiced soldering the pinholes before the multimter test. The soldering worked, but just barely. I think my flame was too much. The only one I own is the big thing used for plumbing copper pipe fittings. The flux would just move all over the float and make a mess. I see the sending unit I ordered from WillysAmerica has a plastic float. My oem sending unit is junk, right? Not sure how they would fix the electrical problem.

On Saturday, I went to the Pacific Northwest Porshe owners get-together. My son has a new Cayenne. It was the only station wagon there. About 75 cars showed up. A great group of fun enthusiasts. With some serious dosh! Many of them bought expensive cars, and then spent a lot more money tuning them up. They loved talking about their preferences and decisions. We had fun!

Paul
 
Paul
Anything broken around the rear axle? U bolts loose?
It's hard to explain a slipped synchronizer. There are 3 shifting dogs that need to line up correctly with the brass synchro ring slots. And if the mainshaft slips out 1/2" or so they can lose their position. If the mechanic doesn't spot it then the dogs will jam up when the transfer case gets bolted up. And, your synchros fail to work. And you are pulling out your trans again. You could spot that if you take off the trans top shifter.
Also I agree with other guys that there may be a flywheel problem.
Good luck!
diggerG
 
Once you get your fuel system going again maybe try putting the back end up on jack stands as previously mentioned and try reverse with basically no load on the back tires. What happens then? Usually a clutch doesn't know the difference between forward and reverse gears.

While it is up in the air(no longer running and key out of the ignition!) grab a rear tire one at a time and shake/push/pull and see what kind of movement you get if any. This could point to a loose hub or axle bearing issue.

How do the ujoints in the rear driveshaft feel? Nice and tight with no freeplay?

What about the pinion shaft into the rear end? How much play is there from when you start turning the driveshaft to a tire or two starting to turn? If you turn the drive shaft either way does the rear axle act any different? Does the pinion shaft and yoke slide forward or backwards at all?
 
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