Ethanol vs. Non-Ethanol Gas - Your Opinion?

dennyscars

Sharpest Tool
Oct 20, 2009
200
Roseburg OR
First Name
Denny
Willys Model
  1. Jeepster
Willys Year:
  1. 1950
Howdy folks:

Here in Oregon we have non-ethanol gas available. Non-ethanol costs about $1.20 more per gallon right now, but I've been using it in my collector vehicles. I assume most of you Willys guys run on ten percent ethanol gas, so I'm wondering if there are any problems as a result. I've heard all sorts of horror stories about ethanol ruining mechanical fuel pumps and carbs. Also, there is supposed to be increased problems with vapor locking with ethanol. My wagon's gas tank has been cleaned and sealed with the Eastwood brand products. I wonder if that stuff would be loosened by the ethanol, thus gumming up the fuel line and carb. Your experiences would be appreciated.

Denny
 
Great thread. I am interestred to read the comments to come. My 60 Wagon has the original fuel system with no modifications to the fuel system. I completed the restoration in 2011 and have put 6,700 miles on it using the regular 87 octane fuel at the local station. I always use an addative like Stabil when I put it away in the winter. I do not leave much fuel in the tank so that I can add a tank of fresh fuel in the spring. It does set for at least 90 days in the winter. So far I have not had any problems. I know when I rebuilt the 226 it had hardened seats on the exhaust valves. The fuel pump was new from a local vendor and the carb was rebuilt by me with a kit from NAPA.

On my Trail Jeep I have had to clean dried white crap out of the fuel bowl in the carb. I blamed this on dried up modern fuel.
 
Ethanol gas will destroy any older rubber product that is not designed for it. I use non ethanol in every thing (chainsaw, wood splitter, side by side, leaf blower,etc any small engine) except my 2005 and 2007 vehicles. Cheap insurance in my opinion.
 
I rebuilt an old Honda motorcycle and couldn't get the rubber carb gaskets to work. They would fit but then expand like sponges in gas. Yes, effects of ethanol, the seals weren't designed for it. I get 100% gas here at a cost increase of 20% over blend. My truck seems to be OK with ethanol but 100% gas burns better so it kind of evens out in the end. It also will store much longer, ethanol absorbs water.


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I have seen all of the above affects from ethanol. my coworker did a road trip test in his DD Honda car, he gained 5mpg over the 32mpg he got with ethanol blend. Jim Ford
 
Ethanol is not good. Ruins engines two strokes more. I use some pre mixed stuff I get at Home Depot it is expensive but works well For my two strokes. I wont use ethanol in my willys not designed to run in it. We do have a place close by that sells real gas.
 
I have been using the ethanol blended gas since 2000. I did replace the carb with one I had rebuilt one but it didn't have any problems due to ethanol. Having put around 20,000 miles on my truck using ethanol blended gas I don't believe I will have any problems in the future. Now sometimes on days when the temperature might be over 90 and the truck sits after it has run I might have a hesitation for a couple seconds after it is restarted. It has always cleared quickly and not given me any problems. I am not saying I like the fuels today, I am saying I have not had any problems with them. Ted
 
In addition to our 59 wagon, we have a 48 1T chevy pickup, all original, and three other mid-nineties pickups and a honda CRV. Each of these is tracked in a log for fuel use, mileage, oil changes, maintenance, etc. We started getting exactly 10% less mpg in our vehicles in the winter. That lasted only a couple years and I couldnt figure it out. Since then our state went to 10% ethanol in all fuels all the time and have had to post it on the pumps. Mystery solved. All of my vehicles use this fuel since no-ethanol fuel is not available here. But for a ten percent ethanol addition and the resulting mileage reduction, I cant see why we are forced to use it. My conclusion is it does nothing for the consumer. So far I have not experienced any degradation in any of my fuel systems. Shelf-life is definitely less though. Ive had to pour out several 5 gal cans of old fuel into a fire pit and burn it. Not only dangerous, I cant believe that disposal technique doesnt offset any perceived EPA benefit. No one around here will accept old fuel for disposal either. On a related line, the FAA prohibits the use of Mogas with any ethanol in it in aviation engines that were previously approved by the FAA to use mogas. Stated reasons are lower boiling point and degradation of rubber components in fuel systems not designed for it. Bottom line personally, if I could avoid it I would.
 
I haven't had any problem with ethanol gas in my Willys (or my other cars and small engines). I am very vigilant about adding Sta-bil if I think the gas is going to sit more than 3 months, though.

I definitely noticed better MPG when I've used non-ethanol gas in my Mazda. There's a gas station near my work that sells straight gas, but it's usually at least 75 cents more a gallon as compared to to the ethanol mix. I did the math--it's still more cost effective to buy the ethanol mix.
 
A modern fuel-injected car in closed-loop will get slightly better mileage from non-ethanol gas, and every car gets noticeably worse mileage in the winter , due to choke or fuel injection temperature enrichment. A ten percent mix will change the economy a lot less than ten percent unless the ethanol has zero BTU s which is unlikely. I have used whatever fuel they sell in a hotted-up 1950 Chevy truck and a 1962 Porsche, and in spite of all I have heard, it has caused me no trouble.
 
An engine is a combustible engine, not a gasoline engine. It will run on anything that blows up. Funny cars run on pure alcohol, {ethanol}. And they are a lot faster than the Gas class. In Brazil all the cars run on pure alcohol made from corn. They can't afford gas.
If the car manufactures built their engines with good parts like the racers do, ethanol would be no problem at all. You need forged engine parts to use ethanol. And rubber parts that aren't made in China. Remember the tires that were denigrating on people?
As far as the story I heard about there being to much water in the mixture that will ruin your engine, I have watched an engine run on pure water. In the 50s because of the expense of gas, rodders use to run a tube from the base of the carburetor to a bottle of water on the floor board to get better gas milage. The B25 bombers use to do that in WWII so they could travel longer distances. I have never had a problem with ethanol in any of my cars. If anything I'm sure it will keep your injectors cleaner. Stabil is a great product to use in your gas tank and Mystery Oil, which I have used for years.
 
Not much related to ethanol in fuel, water injection in addition to fuel allows an engine to tolerate more ignition advance/higher compression without detonating. A little more advance or compression can improve mileage some.
Any engine running on pure water has a hidden fuel source somewhere to make it run, as water alone cannot do the trick.
An engine set up to run on pure alcohol needs very large jets as it will get about half the MPG of gasoline for a similar power output, because the alcohol has about half the energy per gallon compared to gasoline. At least part of what is good about it is that it cools the charge and is therefore less prone to detonating or knocking
 
The only time I use ethanol fuel is in a rental car! In the WIllys I use the high octane stuff. My Log splitter and chain saws and quads never get ethanol any more. Scooped the junk out of to many carbs and gas tanks in the past. Sta-bil doesn't help it either. I was told it's not compatible with corn or ethanol
 
Although you may not want the ethanol blend in your Willys, if it is stock it has no need at all for high octane, which will give no benefit at all as the compression ratio is very low by today's standards. Also, Roy, it looks like my hardware-store paint is almost identical to the color on your truck.
 
Ethanol is not good. Ruins engines two strokes more. I use some pre mixed stuff I get at Home Depot it is expensive but works well For my two strokes. I wont use ethanol in my willys not designed to run in it. We do have a place close by that sells real gas.

I run lots of chainsaws and have for a long time mixed more oil in the gas than is recommended. I use 40:1 when 50:1 is called for. That works for me. Few carb problems. And I don't buy crap chain saws. That doesn't mean I like the ethanol though. Enviornmentalists don't run chainsaws, they hire others to do it, and then complain about them destroying the environment. and they sure don't fix heavy equipment.
diggerG
 
I ran chain saws for a lot of years. When you find the white powder or flakey stuff in the carb. That is what the ethanol leaves. I also run more oil than in my gas also for the saws. Use the pre mixed stuff in my trimmer and blowers.
 
Ethanol contains alcohol, alcohol, absorbs water, when you treat it with fuel supplements you are adding more alcohol, water causes rust and white deposits in your carb. Ethanol eats at the old standard rubber products, gaskets, o-rings etc.
If you drive a lot and burn fuel you are adding fresh fuel therefore ethanol will not hurt your vehicle. Life span of Ethanol is about 3 months. I never use Ethanol in my 2 cycles or anything does not get run often.
 
Looks like alot of us do things the same way. I too run oil in my 2 strokes a bit heavy. I use a good oil usually KLOTZ synthetic. 30 years ago I was big into kart racing with 2 stroke engines that ran 12,000 plus RPM's. I bought my share of new pistons and learned my lesson the expensive way. Heck today my trim mower is a newer Toro deck with a 1983 Suzuki (toro) 2 stroke engine. In my humble opinion its the best mower engine ever built. Mine is 30 years old and runs well every week. It has been running Klotz at 32 to 1 for all those years and the engine has never been apart.
 
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An engine is a combustible engine, not a gasoline engine. It will run on anything that blows up. Funny cars run on pure alcohol, {ethanol}. And they are a lot faster than the Gas class. In Brazil all the cars run on pure alcohol made from corn. They can't afford gas.
If the car manufactures built their engines with good parts like the racers do, ethanol would be no problem at all. You need forged engine parts to use ethanol. And rubber parts that aren't made in China. Remember the tires that were denigrating on people?
As far as the story I heard about there being to much water in the mixture that will ruin your engine, I have watched an engine run on pure water. In the 50s because of the expense of gas, rodders use to run a tube from the base of the carburetor to a bottle of water on the floor board to get better gas milage. The B25 bombers use to do that in WWII so they could travel longer distances. I have never had a problem with ethanol in any of my cars. If anything I'm sure it will keep your injectors cleaner. Stabil is a great product to use in your gas tank and Mystery Oil, which I have used for years.

Well, there's some good info here, and some stuff that is out of context, to say the least. It is true that an engine can be designed to run on many different types of fuels, but as a rule it's tough to design ONE engine that will run on a wide variety.

Yes, Alcohol has been used in racing engines for a long time. But they use METHANOL, not the ethanol that's in our gas. Methanol has a lower amount of chemical energy per pound that gasoline, but because it has high octane rating, you can run 14 or 16 to 1 compression, and so you extract the energy it has more efficiently. You also use more of it. As I recall, methanol carb are jetting around 6:1, not 14:1, air/fuel. A similar ratio applies to ethanol.

The real issue with ethanol is because ethanol is sort of, well, bisexual. It will mix with gasoline, and it will mix with water. If you mix ethanol and water it's called vodka. Add some food coloring and it's Jack Daniels's ;-)

Refineries have put very small amounts of either methanol or ethanol into gasoline for decades. It helps to control gas-line freeze-up. In cold climates, small amount of water settle in the lowest place in the fuel system, which is often the fuel line. Sometimes when the car is parked it freezes and plugs the line. A wee bit of alcohol, either kind, prevents this.

Here's the bisexual part: If you have gasoline that is 90% real gas and 10% ethanol, and zero water. All is well. But condensation in the tank, etc, means that a small amount of water will get into the system. If it remains small, no problem. But if the amount of water increases, at a certain point the ethanol decides it would rather be vodka than fuel, and it settles out of solution with the gas, and stays with the water. So now you have a gas tank that is maybe 85% fuel, and 15% vodka, and the vodka sinks to the bottom, and the fuel pickup grabs it, ands it doesn't burn. Or, it just rusts stuff.

Wanna play scientist? Pour 1 quart of 10 percent ethanol gas into a largish jar. Measure carefully. Begin adding plain water, about 1/2 teaspoon at a time, stirring well. The first few additions will blend, but when you get up to about 15 percent, all of a sudden the alcohol and water will come out of solution with the gas and settle to the bottom.

Rodders did not run a tube to a bottle of water because water burns. it does not. Water injection, or water-methanol injection, has been used for decades to cool the intake air so that you get more air, and therefore more power, and you also get a little more resistance to detonation. When water or methanol evaporate, they absorb a lot of heat. This is why alcohol on your skin feels cool, and it is the principle behind swamp coolers. Cooler air is denser, so there is more air per cubic foot. ESPECIALLY on a blown or supercharged engine, injecting the liquid can really cool the intake charge and reduce detonation problems. There is a downside - two, actually. Vaporized water, aka steam, occupies volume, so the more steam you let into the cylinder, the less air and oxygen you get. Second, hot steam is a pretty good oxidized, and it tends to eat away at metals, especially aluminum.

Older engines may not have ethanol-resistant seals and gaskets, etc. and of course that's an issue. But old or new, none of them like the excess water that accumulates. More of an issue on lawnmowers and chainsaws and such than on daily drivers.
 
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