Rear Axle - To swap or not...

joberrick

Sharpest Tool
Jul 6, 2012
247
Temecula, CA
First Name
John
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1962
My current rear axle set up is the original Dana 44 tapered axles and 3.54 gears with 11" drum brakes on a 63 wagon.

Had decided to swap out for a Scout II axle with the stronger flanged axles but am now looking at Herm's full floating kit for the original axle. I know its the more expensive route, but the idea that I can keep the original axle is appealing if the end result is the same--a stronger and safer axle.

Herm's kit replaces the tapered axles with a spindle set up with much stronger axle shafts. In addition to stronger axle shafts, the weight of the vehicle is no longer carried by the axle shaft and instead is carried by the spindle. Not only should this be a stronger set up, the fact that the wheel doesn't fall off if an axle shaft does break, is a much better scenario, especially at highway speeds... don't ask why I know ;-)

I'd be interested to hear what others think about this, and if anyone has experience with this kit, would love to hear how it has worked out.
 
I had a 1970 CJ5 that a rear axel bearing spun in the housing , this caused the new bearing to be loose in the housing. I installed a floating rear axel kit built by Smittybuilt I believe this is the same kit. It bolted right up and worked well. It also had the additional benefit of allowing me to install locking rear hubs . Whenever I towed my jeep I would disengage the rear hubs which helped out with the towing.

Nick.
 
That has always been my dream setup for a moderately built Willys-I was hoping to do that swap on mine but found a Dana 60 the correct size with 5 on 5.5. Cool, but a full floating Dana 44 is cooler...
 
I am wanting "modern" under my '62 wagon body. My project was shelved for some years. I was last considering a Chevy Colorado. Please suggest known best fits.

Thank you
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll follow up the thread later with my experience if I go ahead with this route.
 
When swapping out the whole rear axel you have to consider the costs of other things also when comparing the cost of improving your original. I'm putting a Ford 9" in my 48. I'm keeping my 1&3/4" rear leaf springs and the axel tubes on the 65 Thunderbird 9" are 3". I will have to buy or have made and welded in place , pads that will fit the Willys Leaf Springs and the larger Ford 9" tubes. So not only is there a cost in setting up the new rear at the right angle, there are fabrication costs to have the right pads and shocks.
 
How about having the stock axles magnafluxed and running them? With good parts the wheels will never ever come off on the freeway. Of course the full-floater would still be cooler.
 
I agree with Martin The problems with the tapered axle 44 are mostly 1.) Grease your axle bearings regularly or else. 2.) Don't be afraid to tighten up your axle hub nuts a lot and use the cotter pin. 3.) Put your keyway in properly or you WILL split your hub. 4.) Tighten your lugnuts to spec. 5.) Again, as Martin said, start with good parts first. That is important, as there is, in truth, no telling just what a previous so called mechanic did to your baby. The badly done things I have seen over 45 years are incredible. FULL DISCLOSURE ALERT I have been guilty of a few boners myself and admit it.

Having said that, The full floating axle kit should be awesome as long as there is a way for the bearings to lubricate themselves. Factory full floating rears lube themselves with the diff housing gear oil. i've never seen this kit but heard about it. 3/4 ton pickups no longer have full float rears anymore, I guess as a cost cutting measure, and as an exercise of wimping out pickups too. There is a very good reason why real trucks have full floating rear axles. They NEED them. Willys wagons don't, but that would be cool nonetheless. diggerG
 
I think Arlen makes some great points regarding swaps. Any time you're replacing something with another design, fabrication comes into play and some folks are better suited (tools and/or skills) to do such. I know I can figure out a swap and make it work, but I always prefer to keep things as original as I can yet meet the needs of how I'd like to use the vehicle. So there's that element in my head.

To Martin's point about keeping the original axles and making sure they're sound (magnaflux), and Greg's points of proper installation and maintenance, for maximum performance, I don't disagree generally, especially behind stock engine configurations and tire/wheel combos. They served me pretty well for many years, even off-roaded them pretty aggressively with only a few issues, but behind the power of a mild small block and bigger tires, I broke 3 over a couple of years. Two of those occurred at slow speeds so no big deal, but 1 of them came apart at highway speed so I lost the wheel with drum while going 65 miles an hour... I was able to coast to a stop without too much trouble (all though the sparks created a fire in the bar pit along the highway... ) but the worst part was the tire/wheel/drum assembly that went flying by me... had it crossed the highway and hit an oncoming car, it would have been disastrous... so, the honest truth is that I was never really comfortable with the axles from that point forward... now maybe I had bad replacement axles (I never had them magnafluxed) but I'm sure I had them installed properly to spec, always kept them lubricated properly and tightened, and never drove crazy hard on them.

So, that has a lot to do with my quest for something stronger... now, since my post, I've reached out to Herm and have learned that he does not have kits for the wagon width... he has kits for CJs... so the axle shafts are probably not the right length... but he's offered to help me by providing spline and seal surface measurements so I can figure out the lengths I would need. I'll then see if I can find someone here in So Cal that can manufacturer them to spec for a reasonable price... The rest of his kit will work just fine...

If anyone has a referral to a good machine shop capable of such, let me know. I'm sure I can find someone here in the area but I always prefer referrals... as I learn more and figure this out, I'll post more once I have more info.

Thanks everyone!

John
 
My 2 cents...not worth much but here goes...

Go with parts you can get at the local parts store....keep it basic and keep it simple...do you want to be able tool down the interstate highways with it??....if so build it light weight..

If you wanna go off roading...muddin...crawling etc...build it heavy duty...

At my local NAPA autoparts store...Chevy parts are with in a couple hours after I call them with a parts inquiry...I would build with Chevy parts any day of the week...

My smelly old 2 cents...

MikeC
 
It took me a couple of months to find axel pads that were 1.75 wide and cut to 3" axel pads. Most are cut to 2 & 1/2" axel tubes. They would tell me all you have to do is grind it out. ? Well you better be close to a perfect match side to side or your Willys is gonna sit crooked. Those kind of things should be done at a machine shop.
 
If I was in So Cal and needed custom axles, the first people I would contact would be Dynatrac or Curry. Either one of these Companies could help you. If I wanted the best, I would contract Dynatrac to make me an axle.The rear axles wouldn't be as expensive as a front. I am about ready to buy an empty front Dana 44 for my 2008 Wrangler from them and install my internals. I bought a set of one ton axles from a Chevy truck and installed them in my wagon. The front in a Dana 60 and the rear is a 14 bolt full floater, the best cheap money can buy as far as strength is concerned. It's pretty hard to break those 14 bolts but, they are wide for a wagon, I don't know about a truck. You can also make up some room with the width of the rims you buy.
 
Joebbrick, Jeep used the same exact tapered hub setup on Jeep Wagoneers up to 1970 with the 350 Buick engines and there were very few problems with all that weight and horsepower, until guys would do brake jobs and NOT properly install the tapered hubs. They did use the better Bendix 11" self adjusters but the hubs were the same. And, believe it or not, the truck hubs on the #53 rear were weaker due to a design mistake. (bigger taper, thinner hubs, not ideal) i was a Jeep parts guy in the 70's and 80's, I saw and heard plenty of things about Jeeps. I don't know a damn thing about the new ones however.
diggerG
 
Greg, Thanks for the perspective with the Wagoneer info. Really helpful to be reminded of why I always believed the axles were adequate for a mild V8 conversion -- their history with the Wagoneer. My problems didn't show up until I added more power (Ford 302) and 33" tires... could have been related more to the tires and wheel offset I was using at the time... I'm confident I had them installed properly as I was meticulous about meeting specs on end play, torque, etc. and maintained them regularly... Thanks again!
 
dahreno! Dang! I just looked up articulation in the dictionary and found the same picture of your wagon ;-) What a clean looking set up! Thanks for the direction on the axle companies... I'll reach out to each of them.
 
Joberrick

Here is 1 place http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/ that can build almost any thing you want it's in Oregon and then there is Mouser ,Strange, and Currie. The one thing I will say about the OEM axle and the HI is that the OEM is a 19 spline and the HI is 30 spline. You can change the diff (add power lok or trac lok ) with 30 spline to upgrade and do the full float kit and new axle shafts and Bobs your uncle. If you still have the original running gear then you need to keep the offset diff but if you are going to upgrade then the centered diff is better.

Dave
 
If you want to strengthen the axels you have, just pack them in dry ice, overnight.
 
Joberrick

Here is 1 place http://www.dutchmanaxles.com/ that can build almost any thing you want it's in Oregon and then there is Mouser ,Strange, and Currie. The one thing I will say about the OEM axle and the HI is that the OEM is a 19 spline and the HI is 30 spline. You can change the diff (add power lok or trac lok ) with 30 spline to upgrade and do the full float kit and new axle shafts and Bobs your uncle. If you still have the original running gear then you need to keep the offset diff but if you are going to upgrade then the centered diff is better.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I spoke with Dutchman a few days ago and they are going to cut me a pair of axles to my spec with the 19 splines inside and the 27 splines on the outside to match up with the drive flanges that come with the kit I'm buying from Herm. Pretty straightforward. They'll also add a polished seal area as the kit uses a seal at the end of the axle tube to keep fluid out... I've read where some let the fluid flow through to lub the bearings but I'm going to go with the kit design and maintain the rear bearings like I do the fronts for now.

Once I'm done and have some experience with everything, I'll post the details including axle specs for anyone that might want to go this route. I know one can pull together parts on their own and do this fairly cheaply, but based on kit price less axles shafts from Herm (475) and the custom axles (490), its obviously more expensive than finding a swapper axle, but the beauty is that its the original housing and gearing, yet stronger and safer. That was my goal.

Thanks!
John
 
what axle pads did you find and use? i am getting ready to do the same thing install a 9 inch in my 55 truck. do you have any pics?
 
For those putting a Ford 9" rear in your Willys. I put a 9" in the rear of my Pickup from a Ford F150, the width on that is 62" the wheels stick out but not to bad.
And then I picked up a 9" from a early Ford Broncos which is 58" wide, the exact same width as the original D44 in my Willys Wagon , a perfect fit. I would add the only down side to a 9" is the low pinion, other wise I'm a happy camper.
 
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