A reminder of why I like working on my Willys

Lookout Ranch

Well Oiled
All-Star
May 9, 2015
9,831
Sierra Foothills
First Name
Kurt
Willys Model
  1. Wagon
Willys Year:
  1. 1957
My son's fiancé inherited a '98 Oldsmobile Aurora from her grandfather. An idiot light came on indicating a problem with the charging system, so I took my multimeter over to see if I could diagnose the problem. Probably a simple alternator swap-out, I figured.

One look under the hood told me nothing about this would be simple. There's a 4.0 liter V8 shoehorned in transversely, and it takes up so much room the brilliant engineers at GM decided to put the battery under the back seat, along with the fuse boxes and relays.

Just to get a somewhat unobstructed peek at the alternator, the front splash guard underneath needed to be removed. Even then I couldn't reach key parts of it to do any kinds of tests. Oh, and there isn't room to remove the alternator via that lower route. It has to come out the top, which requires removal of a body cross member, the radiator fans, and quite possibly the radiator itself (instructions vary).

The car also has an intermittant starting problem, so I looked around underneath for the starter and never did see it. It seems to be hidden behind part of the transmission.

Oh, there's also the problem of the way it wears the shoulders off the front tires.

What a monstrosity -- a disgraceful example of modern American automotive engineering. It's no wonder foreign car makers were eating Detroit's lunch.
 
Oh, they also screw up. The first thing you have to remove on my wife's Mini Cooper to access the water pump is to remove the headlights! Then the radiator support upper and the engine mounts, then remove the right inner fender and you can then see if it is leaking. It is about a fingers thickness from the frame and you can undo 2 bolts with a socket and 2 with an open end wrench for some turn one flat at a time action. Then you raise the engine with a jack to get at the top ones.
Then you replace the water pump with the 3rd to this car genuine plastic water pump from mini, or you buy a real aluminum from any of the parts suppliers for less. (Like I did) The plastic ones have a life just over 50,000 miles (50,200 on the first pump, 103,000 on the second. Mini settled a court case and we got the first one refunded retroactively with another junk plastic one. Beats me why they can settle a court case because they are using substandard parts, yet get to keep replacing them with the same part)
Other companies still manage to make simple stuff nearly impossible.
Back in my body shop days, I worked on a ford explorer that was t boned and needed an upper door hinge. They bolt on from the inside of the dash and according to the manual you got like 16 hours to R&R the dash! I managed to heat and bend a wrench and get it off without removing the dash.
Also in the day, those silly half padded vinyl tops on the '78 style T birds. A hail storm dented a chrome trim piece and they are held on by T clips from the inside. First thing you remove is the rear seat bottom, then the back, then side panels, then the headliner.
This stuff has been going on a long time.
 
Yep, my wife has a Volvo XC60 with the turbo 4. To check the freon before we left on a road trip in it, I had a time getting to the low pressure port. The high pressure port is right out in the open by the radiator. The low pressure port is hidden up in the cowl. Also, when changing the oil, there's no dipstick. There's supposed to be a way to check the oil via car's info system. Darned if I could get it to work. I just remember to put 5.7 quarts in. No more, no less. I get the idea that Volvo really doesn't want the end user to do any maintenance.
 
I R&Red the alternator in that Aurora last weekend. You can get it out without removing the radiator, but you do have to remove the radiator fans and slide the alternator all the way over to the left side the the engine compartment to squeeze it out the top.

Also, I found out where the starter is. I couldn't see it anywhere and finally resorted to a google search. Turns out the starter is in the V of the V8, under the engine cover, intake manifold, and fuel injection rail.
 
Also, I found out where the starter is. I couldn't see it anywhere and finally resorted to a google search. Turns out the starter is in the V of the V8, under the engine cover, intake manifold, and fuel injection rail.

And that is why you NEVER try to keep an Aurora running as a primary vehicle once it has some years and miles on it! Nothing is simple on it and they are plagued with electrical issues. My strong suggestion as a Certified Master Tech is to fix the alternator and peddle the Aurora as the nightmare only stop when you no longer have the car!

Modern vehicles constantly remind me why I love my old cars, my Willys and my Jeeps. The old ones were made to last and be serviceable, the modern ones are designed to look pretty, have a lot of bells and whistles and generally perform well for the average length of a car loan. After that, all bets are off. Modern vehicle repairs fall into basically two categories - The very expensive part that may be realitively easy to change and the cheap part which requires hours of labor to service.
 
Agreed, the "modern" vehicles, especially the fancy ones, can be a pain in the wallet (Japanese models excepted?). It's interesting, however, to look to the future... my crystal ball says there are huge changes coming quite soon. I fully expect China to lead the way. Any day now, the Central Committee will ban all manufacture and import of ICE passenger cars. Just watch what this will do to the automotive world.

Of course, the electric vehicles aren't simple either and you really can't do any drive-train service/modification yourself. So hang on to your older simple vehicles as long as possible. For every day commuting however, you can pick up a used Nissan Leaf at a very good price these days. My son pays about an extra $2-3 a week on his Hydro bill since buying a used Leaf 2 years ago... zero maintenance so far.
 
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My daughter had a Prius. It was all good until the battery needed replacing. Her husband worked at O'Reilly's and even with his employee's discount it was going to be between 2 and 3 thousand just for the battery. Not including installing it (and finding someone willing to do it).
 
When you look at the potential fuel savings (if you drive a lot), the Prius battery seems like a good deal. In this city most of the taxis are Priuses. I was told that the fuel savings alone are about $1500 per car per month compared to the full size Fords they used to drive. On the west coast above the 49th, we pay $1.50 CAD per liter (about $4.50 USD per US gallon) for regular (87 octane incl 10% ethanol).... you don't want to know what High Test (94 octane/no ethanol) is. Our next daily driver will be full electric.
 
I R&Red the alternator in that Aurora last weekend. You can get it out without removing the radiator, but you do have to remove the radiator fans and slide the alternator all the way over to the left side the the engine compartment to squeeze it out the top.

Also, I found out where the starter is. I couldn't see it anywhere and finally resorted to a google search. Turns out the starter is in the V of the V8, under the engine cover, intake manifold, and fuel injection rail.


The worst thing that GM/Oldsmobile ever did was quit building the Cutlass Ciera. They were tough little cars that got great mileage, were not that bad to work on and people liked them ! The sales numbers were great for the Ciera right up to the year it was discontinued. That Aurora is an abomination. Everything Olds put a name tag up to the end were poorly designed, and not dependable. GM skated out the Olds name, made there money, and them dumped it. Damn shame to a long a storied auto company, Olds was an American original. To bad big business sold it out. Hey look.... a soapbox.
 
You also can pull a Prius battery out of a junkyard or buy a refurbished one for abkut $800.

I’m looking forward to the plug-in Jeep Wrangler set launch in just over a year. Can’t beat that instant electric torque.
 
No wonder one of the only cars I ever end up passing on the freeway is a Prius! They have worn out batteries and can't push them too hard. Not that I'm even near going fast in my Jeep. I have no OD on anything, so 65 is about it.
 
No wonder one of the only cars I ever end up passing on the freeway is a Prius! They have worn out batteries and can't push them too hard. Not that I'm even near going fast in my Jeep. I have no OD on anything, so 65 is about it.

Agreed. When I think of electric vehicles, giant locomotives and Teslas drag racing (and beating) Dodge Hellcats come to mind, not a hypermiling Prius. A Prius has its role in the world, but it doesn’t get me excited.
 
You also can pull a Prius battery out of a junkyard or buy a refurbished one for abkut $800.

I’m looking forward to the plug-in Jeep Wrangler set launch in just over a year. Can’t beat that instant electric torque.

They found a junkyard battery, swapped them out and then traded it in a Corolla.
 
Larry, this combination - electric car for short commutes/ daily transportation and any ICE older vehicle (with personality) for fun and longer trips, makes a lot of sense. Our son bought a 3 year old Nissan Leaf for his commute and is delighted - he's had it 3 years now. It costs him about $2-3 a week to run with zero maintenance so far (added windshield washer fluid). The other benefits are wonderful too.
This is the future for us - stone age Willys/Land Rover/Brit sports cars for fun, modern electric for daily driver.
 
Agree with you there, got a leaf for commute, LR90V8 tow motor (have LR trials car too) for playing and willys Wagon under resto. slightly concerned about supply of gas to run these toys in years to come.
 
I had this idea when constantly gassing up my '05 Pathfinder a V6 that gets mileage like the Willys did...12 mpg in a mid size 4 wheeler some progress! Actually keeping the long runs away from the Willys and hope to make the electric car pay for itself! Thanks for the input and Merry Christmas. Looks like the Reindeer are hiding out and the big guy has to take the Willys.
 

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Merry Christmas to all (Grandson hasn't arrived yet)!

To get back to the original topic of this thread:
I've long had the idea of converting an FC150 or FC170 to electric - it seems like a natural match - perfect evolution for the vehicle?. There would be lots of space under the bed for batteries (easy access if it were a dump bed). And you could remove the "doghouse" and fit a bench seat in the cab. Would make a very practical New Year's Resolution... Now to finish wrapping those dinosaurs.
 
Merry Christmas to all (Grandson hasn't arrived yet)!

To get back to the original topic of this thread:
I've long had the idea of converting an FC150 or FC170 to electric - it seems like a natural match - perfect evolution for the vehicle?. There would be lots of space under the bed for batteries (easy access if it were a dump bed). And you could remove the "doghouse" and fit a bench seat in the cab. Would make a very practical New Year's Resolution... Now to finish wrapping those dinosaurs.
If you’re just using it about town, the electric FC would be fine. On the open road the poor aerodynamics would drain the batteries pretty quickly.
 
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