How do I know if my clutch needs any work?

Hey guys,

So I've begun to fix things in my recently acquired '49 wagon. I am NOT a mechanic, but I can watch Youtube videos of mechanics for hours! So there's that...

My 4wd wagon has the T90 trannie behind a '53 Ford 215 c.i. engine. The motor seems to have good compression across and it runs fine. But the trannie slips out of second gear...I guess that is a very familiar problem for many.

So my intention is, unless you guys talk me out of it, is to take the transmission to a trusted guy in Olympia and have him rebuild it with a Novak's kit, as well as install the Novak "Overdrive" adapter. He quoted me $450 for the work. He is a retired "Transmission teacher" from one of our local Voc/Tech schools. Overdrive because I want the "possibility" of county highway speeds. Any reason NOT to move forward with this plan instead of something different?

So that brings me to the clutch. How do I know that it might also be time to replace anything there? I ask because I assume it would be less expensive to do this at the same time. But I might be wrong about the since I am clueless. Even IF the clutch is in good shape now, is there anything preventative to do to it while the transmission is out?

See....one week on the forum and I have already exposed myself as the least knowledgeable person here!

Thanks in advance!

Paul

this would get more traffic on the main forum board. i bet one of our mods can move it for you. that being said.

probably a decent price for the work you are talking about. i would probably go head and do a new clutch disk while you are in there. not to terribly expensive and it is piece of mind that its done and wont fail two months after everything is back together going down the road. check all pins and linkage. clean them up. remove extra grease/dirt etc.

do not worry about it. there are no dumb questions here.

A common problem with a potentially easy fix. I would buy a new set of poppet ball/springs and replace them. Very easy to do (less than 15 minutes) and very inexpensive. These springs weaken over time and a slipping 2nd gear is the first sign. If that doesnt work you can always do the clutch /trannie overhaul. A new clutch would be good for piece of mind. That's a pretty good price . I've never seen an overdrive for less than $1000 (not including installation) . And yes, you can learn pretty much everything you need form the internet and this forum!!!

Yep. $450 would be an amazing price!!!

But I'm supplying the parts. ;-)

Should have made that clearer...

Hello Paul,
Your plan sounds like a good one. Trannie issue could also be the second gear syncro, also a common problem. Since you have to take the transmission out for rebuild, it would be wise to replace the clutch and throw out bearing also.
I just installed the Overdrive unit on my 57' Pickup....BIG improvement. Will do 55-60 with no problem. 50 was about it without it. If yours is a 4WD, then you should rebuild the transfer case too.

Paul
Let your transmission person troubleshoot your transmission.
Take your Jeep for a drive and TRY to slip the clutch. Beat on it. Put it in gear, stomp on the brakes and let out the clutch. If it doesn't slip or smoke (smell) you are good, but definitely replace your throw out bearing. They can dry out and go bad just by sitting around. Your clutch won't. As a double check your mechanic can assess the clutch also by feel. Listen to him.
diggerG

To be completely honest when I did a frame off restoration I did not replace the clutch. No idea how old it is or how many miles are on it. It simply was still in good shape and had plenty of material still on it, I did replace the throw out bearing and rebuild everything but it just did not need a clutch. It has been 10,000 miles since and it is still great. It only sees about 2,000 miles per year and that's pretty easy use most of the time. I do on occasion tow a 12' trailer with a Crosley on it but I don't get in a hurry. Car and trailer weigh about 2500 lbs total. Yes thats why I put disc brake on front but that another story.

indian john said:

A common problem with a potentially easy fix. I would buy a new set of poppet ball/springs and replace them. Very easy to do (less than 15 minutes) and very inexpensive. These springs weaken over time and a slipping 2nd gear is the first sign. If that doesnt work you can always do the clutch /trannie overhaul. A new clutch would be good for piece of mind. That's a pretty good price . I've never seen an overdrive for less than $1000 (not including installation) . And yes, you can learn pretty much everything you need form the internet and this forum!!!

Click to expand...

Hi John, my 1960 wagon sometimes jumps out of 2nd gear when I let off the gas. Do you think this could solve my problem? Never heard of them, sounds like a cheap try anyway, thanks for the tip, Mike. :cheers:

leiniedude said:

Hi John, my 1960 wagon sometimes jumps out of 2nd gear when I let off the gas. Do you think this could solve my problem? Never heard of them, sounds like a cheap try anyway, thanks for the tip, Mike. :cheers:

Click to expand...

Mike
There are poppet balls and springs in the t90 transmission top and t18 transfer case. My perception is they function like the detente pin on a motorcycle shifter to keep pressure on the shift rails. If they are weak there is more play in the rails and shifting becomes less accurate. The transmission spring/ball is a little more difficult than the transfer case . There are 2 sets. The balls springs and caps are pretty cheap on kaiser or walcks website. For the t90, you have to remove the fork pins and slide the rails out far enough to get to the springs and balls. The hardest part is the fork pin removal. I just dremeled the head off. The transfer case ball/springs are on either side of the case. I thinks it's a 3/4 bolt to get to them. Very easy. If you look in the service manual, the 2 most common causes of 2nd gear slipping are weak springs/worn balls or the 2nd gear wear. Took care of my 2nd gear popping out. I don't have to drive with my hand continually pushing into 2nd anymore. While you have the top off, look at the second gear for wear or damage. This can be done through the floor by removing the shifter floor plate Good luck. John


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Coming out of 2nd gear when letting of the gas is a typical problem like everyone says, but the typical cause that I've always read was a worn 2nd gear synchronizer. To replace that you'll have to pull the transmission and pull the main shaft out of it. And at that point, you may as well do a rebuild with one of the kits that the Willys retailers provide.

If the poppet ball springs were worn or broken, it could cause it to fall out of gear, but I don't know that most of these pickups and wagons had enough miles put on them to really wear out the shifter assembly.

My T90 in my CJ2a does that all the time. It falls out of reverse also. I know there is no ball or spring on my 1st/reverse shift rail, but there is on the 2nd/3rd rail. I plan on replacing both of them this weekend and will let you know if it makes any difference. I was lucky to find new balls and springs in a rebuild kit that came with my wagon.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

The clutch is adjustable and give it one inch free play so that it grabs about half way out on the up-swing. a little auxillary return spring helps too. I agree with the other guy, if you dont drive them often enough the throw-out bearing will make noise. You can also do an easy adjustment by putting a rubber shim of some thickness behind the pedal so it dont go all the way to the floor. $$$ I have a 63 jeep 4wd truck. Last couple of years applying the brake and clutch at the same time seems to effect my braking. Anyone heard of that? Only good side to it is if anyone stole the truck they'd probably crash it because you have to know what your doing and apply brakes alone or seems to be interference. $$$